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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Game Play Variations => Topic started by: Ironica on September 19, 2009, 04:09:44 AM

Title: The Dream Hand
Post by: Ironica on September 19, 2009, 04:09:44 AM
A while ago, I was thinking of trying this with my decks to really test them (haven't yet though).

The idea is that you can chose what your first hand will be.  This way, there won't be any LS overage with no defense (unless you chose to pick no defense).  It is also good to test your strongest cards against your opponent's strongest.  Here's the small list of rules.

-One of the eight cards in your dream hand has to be a lost soul that anyone can rescue (i.e. it can not be the female/NT/*4/etc).  It also can not be the Hopper lost soul or 2/3 liners (the point is to be able to completely rescue a lost soul your first turn with your dream hand).

-Your beginning hand can not have any dominants in it.

-The rest of the deck will remain random (including the card(s) that you draw to replace your lost soul(s)).

-The opening prep phase is in place.  The only exception is that no art/fortress can be put down on the first round that directly affects your opponent's art/fortresses (e.g. Capture Art, Covenant with Moses)

-The rest of the rules for starting remains the same

Whatcha think?  Is this a good way to test two decks going against each other?
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Tsavong Lah on September 19, 2009, 05:02:01 AM
Sounds like a good idea as long as you aren't allowed to start with dominants.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Ironica on September 19, 2009, 09:26:05 AM
Sounds like a good idea as long as you aren't allowed to start with dominants.

Good point.  I added it.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 19, 2009, 09:29:12 AM
That would be pretty schweetness.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on September 19, 2009, 09:37:01 AM
I'd have Hur/Gifts in my starting hand.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 19, 2009, 09:40:40 AM
Yeah, I have to say, this would be totally perfect for speed.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on September 19, 2009, 09:41:34 AM
Nah. Hur was more for messing up my opponent's dream hand..... Gifts was just a little extra.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Ironica on September 19, 2009, 01:27:06 PM
I would probably add the into prep phase idea as well so the person who is going second would sill be able to fully use their defense. The onl exception I would add is that no lost souls can be put into a site the first turn.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Alex_Olijar on September 19, 2009, 01:43:11 PM
Hur, Search, Gifts, Plague of Frogs, Naaman, Naaman's Chariot and Horses, False Peace, Moses
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Smokey on September 19, 2009, 01:48:21 PM
Hur, Search, Gifts, Plague of Frogs, Naaman, Naaman's Chariot and Horses, False Peace, Moses

Abom, High-Places, Antiochus, Winged Leopard, Mayhem, Martha, Meeting the Messiah, Generous Widow.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 19, 2009, 01:51:01 PM
Mayhem is a dominant. Also, your opponent probably won't have many items in their territory at the beginning of the game.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Ironica on September 19, 2009, 03:48:25 PM
You two are also forgetting an important rule

Quote
One of the eight cards in your dream hand has to be a lost soul that anyone can rescue (i.e. it can not be the female/NT/*4/etc).  It also can not be the Hopper lost soul or 2/3 liners (the point is to be able to completely rescue a lost soul your first turn with your dream hand).
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 19, 2009, 04:05:02 PM
I'd probably go with Hur, Gifts, Search, Plague of Frogs, Sabbath Breaker, False Peace, Momentum Change, and the Wanderer.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: sk on September 19, 2009, 04:11:56 PM
Demon d/c LS, DoU, Confusion, PG Panic Demon, TGT, No Need for Spices, Mary Mother of James, Salome
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: The Guardian on September 19, 2009, 04:28:02 PM
Demon d/c LS, DoU, Confusion, PG Panic Demon, TGT, No Need for Spices, Mary Mother of James, Salome

TGT doesn't do much unless the opponent gets a LS from you...
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: sk on September 19, 2009, 04:34:39 PM
Right, but I'd still want it out in case they get one via a drawn or searched dominant, plus the band is pretty nice to have straight up.  And it makes a good red herring to take the CM/HP/Fort kill.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 21, 2009, 01:01:47 AM
High Places, Abom, Antiochus, Hur, Gifts, PO, Generous Widow, Hormah.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: lightningninja on September 21, 2009, 01:05:05 AM
Mayhem is a dominant.   ::)

I'd definitely take Hur... the rest would be tough.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: The Guardian on September 21, 2009, 01:16:49 AM
This really kind of depends on who is going first but...

I'll take Tribal Elder, Jacob, Captain of the Host, Lampstand of the Sanctuary, The Tabernacle, Captured Ark, Messenger of Satan and Confusion.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Prof Underwood on September 21, 2009, 01:49:34 AM
I would go with Hur, Search, Jacob, CotH, LotS, KoT, The Amelekites Slave, Captured Ark, Hopper LS, Generic LS

The first turn you attack with Hur to mess up their super hand, then play Search to get what you need to win LS #1.
Then you block with A-Slave to create another LS to take the next turn with Jake+CotH for LS #2 (TAS).
You get Gomer out of you deck and band in KoT to stop your opponent.
On turn 3 you go back in with Jake+CotH again to win LS #3 (Hopper).

Most of the time, this will get you 3 LSs (without even using AotL) and mean you only need to win 1 more to play SoG/NJ ftw.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on September 21, 2009, 01:51:59 AM
Problem is that Zeb can't activate when theres a non-gen down, so if you lay down Hur, Jake, and Captain, Zeb is useless.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Professoralstad on September 21, 2009, 01:55:43 AM
Also, the Hopper is not allowed...
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: The Guardian on September 21, 2009, 01:57:01 AM
And you did nothing to mess up my super hand except to let me draw 6 extra cards :)
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Prof Underwood on September 21, 2009, 01:58:47 AM
Problem is that Zeb can't activate when theres a non-gen down, so if you lay down Hur, Jake, and Captain, Zeb is useless.
Good point.  Zeb's probably out then.

Also, the Hopper is not allowed...
Hopper is not allowed to be the LS that can be rescued by anyone.  The rules didn't say it couldn't be one of the other 7 cards.

***Original idea modified***
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on September 21, 2009, 11:26:49 AM
I'd search out mayhem and have anb and hurt in my hand in case.

My dream hand.

Hur, Anb, Search(Mayhem!), Huge e, e horses, e archers, e spear, Wonders forgotten. :D
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Ironica on September 21, 2009, 03:19:22 PM
Also, the Hopper is not allowed...
Hopper is not allowed to be the LS that can be rescued by anyone.  The rules didn't say it couldn't be one of the other 7 cards.

The good professor is correct.  Only one lost soul has to be one that anyone can rescue.  Of course, there is a trick that can be pulled off so that your opponent wouldn't be able to get a LS, even if they win the battle ;).  However, you can't chose which cards you will draw to replace the lost soul(s) you have in your dream hand.  That part is suppose to be completely random.

Also, a lot of people say they would want Hur.  Nice idea but is he already in your deck that you use?  This variation wasn't meant to make a deck that will slaughter everyone if you are able to chose your first seven cards but to take the decks you already have and see which deck, if both decks had their "dream hand" at the start, would win.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Ironica on September 21, 2009, 03:27:21 PM
I added the into prep phase and clarification text to one of the rules.

I'm liking all your dream hands :).
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: lightningninja on September 21, 2009, 04:27:25 PM
Hur, Wanderer, Naaman, his horses, Deluge of Rain, Syrian Victory, Joshua, Zeal.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Prof Underwood on September 21, 2009, 05:02:53 PM
Also, a lot of people say they would want Hur.  Nice idea but is he already in your deck that you use?  This variation wasn't meant to make a deck that will slaughter everyone if you are able to chose your first seven cards but to take the decks you already have and see which deck, if both decks had their "dream hand" at the start, would win.
No Hur is not already in a deck that I usually use.  However if there was a version that allowed each player to set their first 8 cards, then that would be so powerful that attacking first with Hur to mess up the opponent's hand would be too critical to pass up.  In fact, I have to question the usefulness of a variant which everyone will be trying to destroy the very thing that made it a variant to begin with (the set opening hand)

Playing with this variation would necessarily mean that people would probably change at least a couple things about their decks.

With the new rules, I would change a couple things.  It is so critical to go first and Hur the opponent, that I think I'd put in an extra LS to make sure that I had 2 and could choose who started.  So...

LS Shuffler, LS Shame, Hur, Search, Jacob, Captain of the Host, Lampstand of the Sanctuary, The Amelekites Slave
1st attack - Hur to mess up their dream hand, search to get the battle winner
1st defense - TAS to get Nebucadnezzar, to get the battle winner
2nd attack - Jake+CotH, who needs battle winners
2nd defense - Nebby to get another battle winner
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Professoralstad on September 21, 2009, 05:37:28 PM
Also, the Hopper is not allowed...
Hopper is not allowed to be the LS that can be rescued by anyone.  The rules didn't say it couldn't be one of the other 7 cards.

The good professor is correct. 

So wait, does that make me the bad Professor? Or just a neutral Professor? Since clearly I misunderstood, I am not the good, correct professor. That kind of hurts.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Smokey on September 21, 2009, 06:26:50 PM
Also, the Hopper is not allowed...
Hopper is not allowed to be the LS that can be rescued by anyone.  The rules didn't say it couldn't be one of the other 7 cards.

The good professor is correct. 

So wait, does that make me the bad Professor? Or just a neutral Professor? Since clearly I misunderstood, I am not the good, correct professor. That kind of hurts.

You're implying that the Professor title is like the hilander title, and treating it like there can only be one... so I ask you, can there not be TWO good professors?
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on September 21, 2009, 08:36:05 PM
Zebelun, I am Healing, High Places, Weakness, Threatened Lives, King Zed, Hormah, Hand Discard Lost Soul.

Good fight.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 21, 2009, 08:39:54 PM
What is Weakness gonna do?
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on September 21, 2009, 09:05:40 PM
set up for the rest of my deck (PWD, Joes three friends, Morgan)
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: SirNobody on September 21, 2009, 09:52:17 PM
Hey,

Is this a good way to test two decks going against each other?

I don't think so.  I think the quality of a deck is best determined by how well a deck does with a below average opening draw.  How well it does with the best possible draw is largely irrelevant because it happens so infrequently.  (I think this is one of the most common deck building misconceptions that players have.)

My single color site and Household Idols would definitely be in my ideal opening hand.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on September 21, 2009, 09:58:52 PM
Quote
Also, a lot of people say they would want Hur.  Nice idea but is he already in your deck that you use? 
Considering I am a propheteer (Ow, the puniness) yes I do use Hur as well as green. I change my offenses based on mood. I wanna play a red deck now, *scurries off to RTS*
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: lightningninja on September 21, 2009, 11:32:00 PM
Yeah, I'm a HUGE fan of green, my nats deck was half green and my deck this year (might) be green. But I don't use Hur... I only would if it was this game type. If someone said, "okay, turns out we're not playing type I 2P, we're playing dream hand," then no, I wouldn't be able to use Hur.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Isildur on September 21, 2009, 11:51:35 PM
Gates of Hell, Raising the Saints, Potters Field, Mentor, E.T, Holy of Holies, Battle Cry, Empty Tomb, Shuffler GG Kids
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 22, 2009, 07:28:41 AM
I understand where you're going with that, but banding is pretty easy to disband or discard all, especially with a dream hand.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Isildur on September 22, 2009, 09:21:53 AM
But if in your deck you maybe have a Zebulan in there well next turn its GG
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: lightningninja on September 22, 2009, 04:44:06 PM
Hm... on the note of zebulen... King of Tyrus, Demon Discarder Soul, Red Dragon, Levi, Simon, Zebulen, Sarah, Garrison. Now that's tough to beat.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on September 22, 2009, 05:40:41 PM
Hm... on the note of zebulen... King of Tyrus, Demon Discarder Soul, Red Dragon, Levi, Simon, Zebulen, Sarah, Garrison. Now that's tough to beat.

My zebby starting hand is more gooder. I have two ways to dismiss the lost soul.  ;)
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: SirNobody on September 22, 2009, 06:53:25 PM
Hey,

If both decks get a "dream hand" then confusion of mind would be a very good card to choose.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on September 22, 2009, 07:09:15 PM
So will lots of other artifacts necessary for starting combos, as well as CBN heroes.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: redemption101 on December 24, 2009, 11:52:14 PM
1/1 white guy or lowest # currently out
Love at first sight
Trans
Words
Gifts
Zimri
Crimson enhacment
Revealer ls

* if ls dosen't count as 8 than i would add Covenat with moses

Mess up thier hand get a 8 new cards my self get moses out, Have auto block in hand and enough drawing that my intital card burn won't hurt to much
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: stefferweffer on January 01, 2010, 09:05:51 PM
Confusion of Mind, Wastelands, Babylonian Banquet Hall, Babylon, King Jehoikin, Confusion, Strong Angel, Captain's Sword

Since they don't have dominants in opening hand, block with Jehoikin and look at their deck, either removing site access or Son of God.  Strong Angel + Captain's Sword is strong FBTN potential, immune to Unholy Writ, and has access to every lost sould except female only.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: SomeKittens on May 27, 2010, 07:05:36 PM
You may want to make a rule about sites, as my first hand would involve a site lockout.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 27, 2010, 11:18:51 PM
You may want to make a rule about sites, as my first hand would involve a site lockout.
Maybe my first hand would contain site access.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: SomeKittens on May 28, 2010, 09:20:57 AM
Depending on the access, that could be negated.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 28, 2010, 09:38:21 AM
Depending on the access, that could be negated.
Depending on what negaters you're using, that could be negated. :)
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: SomeKittens on May 28, 2010, 10:04:45 AM
Depending on what negates the negaters to site acc....
Wait, what?
I'd probably use something akin to mildewed house.
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: uthminister [BR] on May 28, 2010, 11:12:13 AM
Hur+seven lost souls= back to normal game play
Title: Re: The Dream Hand
Post by: TheJaylor on June 30, 2010, 12:37:27 PM
TGT, Mary the Mother of James, Salome, Mary Magdeline, Abe's Servant, Blessings, Phillie Outpost, CBP LS
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