Author Topic: Best way to get into Type 2?  (Read 6973 times)

Offline Reth

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Best way to get into Type 2?
« on: January 12, 2019, 03:00:33 PM »
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Hi there,

first of all I must admit that T2 is really not a tempting format for me (at least so far) - the deck building rules seem too complex to me to get some ideas that can be converted into a working deck.  At least for me T1 and THalf works "easier" when it comes to deckbuilding since I get more ideas on the one hand and can directly implement them into a deck on the other hand.

The opposite is the case for me when it comes to T2 (I assume this is the main reason why this format is not tempting for me so far). Do not know how to approach this format.

So are there any tips, hints, etc. from some T2 Pros on what is the best way to approach this format? What is it's appeal to you? How are deck ideas generated resp. can be implemented?

Everything which provides some understanding regarding this format are hence highly welcome!

Don't know whether T2 will become more interesting for me then but who knows ...

Bye

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 03:49:09 PM »
+1
If you want to try T2, the best thing you can do is build a T2 deck and play it. Even if it isn't a particularly good deck, hopefully from seeing other decks and playing your own you'll get ideas.

I may be a bit bias, because I come from a place where we almost exclusively play T2. I think we mostly because we like longer and very strategic games (I don't want to say T1 isn't strategic, but you definitely have less options). Also in my experience more decks seem viable in T2. I am running a Daniel deck without PoC cards right now, and it works fairly well. Having more copies of most cards in your deck means you have more choices. Also due to the larger deck and same number of dominants, Dominants are less of a factor in T2 (although due to the Rescuer's Choice rules, Burial is much better).

I don't really have a process for deckbuilding. Usually I come up with an idea, either around a theme, a card, or a combo I find interesting, then I put together a deck that looks like it will work or at least could be a "proof of concept" (which basically means a deck that doesn't necessarily have general support/counter cards like Hezikiah's Signet Ring or the Dominants I don't have extras of). Then I try it out and figure out how to improve it.

In general if you don't want to sit down for an hour or more to play a Redemption game than T2 might not be for you. But I've had a ton of fun trying to break through my opponent's defense, or find a clever way to stop a powerful offense. I've had games where I was the one with the nearly unstoppable offense (I built a Children of Light deck, and while it was powerful, most of the players I played against could deal with it, if they got their stuff soon enough) and I've been assaulted by a powerful offense and trying to scrounge together blocks until I could get my seventh Redeemed soul (or draw SoG + NJ or Second Coming).
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 03:56:30 PM »
+1
I think the best place to start would be to take your favorite Type 1 deck and try to build it as a Type 2 deck.

This can be as simple as doubling up on some unique characters and doubling or even tripling up on some generic or essential unique characters. For example, most Judges T2 decks I build have two or three AUtOs in deck and one in Reserve.

A good place to start for Enhancements is to put in multiples of your best battle winners such as three or four copies of Samuel's Edict for a Judges deck. However, having more slots means you can try using more situational Enhancements. For instance, in some of my Judges T2 decks I like to use a copy or two of Ambush the City because it can be a sneaky play when you have AUtO and you know your opponent has Foreign Wives.

Then you can usually just double up on each of your Lost Souls, add more Dominants, and add a few duplicates of important Sites, Artifacts, and Fortresses. The deck building rules can be intimidating at first, but once you put a list or two together you'll get the hang of it and people will be understanding if you accidentally have too many copies of a card.

Offline Reth

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 04:36:23 PM »
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Thanks guys - really great tips!

To be honest: Most of my T1 games currently last way more than one hour - often due to thinking about the best option and since constellations of cards and their abilities are often not 100% clear (e.g. when played or before they are played in order to choose optimal option).

More information still welcome!  :)

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 06:04:48 PM »
+1
Type 2 is so much fun.    Ever since I came to a type 2 play group , I have never looked back.


There is so much different combos and fun deck ideas you can build compared to type 1 decks.

You can have more cards in a deck to play with (min deck size is 100 cards)   Compared to type 1 decks where space is very limited and you can't fit every single card you want to use.


I highly recommend Type 2  :) :)



Offline The Guardian

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 08:19:36 PM »
+1
Not sure if anyone reading this thread is concerned by this particular issue, but one of the things that I heard a lot of people say over the years was that they simply didn't have the collection required to build T2 decks.

Now more than ever, competitive T2 decks can be built that don't require four copies of certain cards and many times the cards that you may want 3-4 copies of for certain decks are not that difficult to obtain.

That being said, I can understand if people are concerned with keeping a T1 deck built at the same time and not having extra of the expensive dominants (TSC, Woes, etc). However, that's the great thing about Lackey...you can test a deck without actually needing the physical deck built!  8)
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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2019, 10:15:49 AM »
+1
That being said, I can understand if people are concerned with keeping a T1 deck built at the same time and not having extra of the expensive dominants (TSC, Woes, etc). However, that's the great thing about Lackey...you can test a deck without actually needing the physical deck built!  8)
And then when you want to play in real life come to the Annual Type-2 Only tournament.

Your T1 deck would be just useless cardboard rectangles there. ;)

Offline Reth

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2019, 05:34:30 PM »
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Well, thanks guys. One additional question: Are there any differences in the kind of playing when comparing T1 with T2?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 08:50:35 PM »
+1
If you mean rules-wise, the two major differences are that the games are played with the Rescuer's Choice rule and the Experience Credit rule.
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Offline Reth

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2019, 05:46:22 AM »
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Oh, good to know! Need to check those rules then (at least Experience Credit I never heard about).

My question was more related to the kind of game play during a game (e.g. in Type 1 almost everything is about to get out your stuff as early as possible or at least when necessary resulting in massive search, draw, take, reveal, look etc. things). Just wanted to know if this (or speed in general) is also the broadest or most common/safe way to go in T2 as well (another example: In THalf you might have a chance to stand and get your opponents handsize reduced permanantly by at least 2 cards - mixing your DAE stuff appropriately hence not relying on speed or selecting cards every turn or phase).

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 11:10:49 AM »
+1
Getting out to a fast start in T2 can certainly be an advantage, but because the game is typically longer, there is more opportunity to come back if your opponent gets out to a really fast start.

You don't necessarily have to have a super fast offense or a super fast defense, but you definitely need to have some speed elements so you don't fall too far behind.
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Offline Reth

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 01:10:27 PM »
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Ok. thank you.

Regarding game play rules - is there anything where those can be checked/read?
I.e. "Experience Credit" I still don't know what it is all about. And are there other game rules not known in T1?

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2019, 02:42:51 PM »
+1
Ok. thank you.

Regarding game play rules - is there anything where those can be checked/read?
I.e. "Experience Credit" I still don't know what it is all about. And are there other game rules not known in T1?

From the REG:
Quote from: pg 96
Experience Credit
This is an optional rule, where if a character successfully rescues or successfully blocks, the character increases 1/1. In this way a character goes stronger with experience. NOTE: Type II Tournament Rules are always played under the Experience Credit rule.
If a rescue attempt is successful mid-battle, Experience Credit is earned at that point.

Beyond that, I think it's just Rescuer's Choice (pg 111) and the deckbuilding rules (pg 6).
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Offline Reth

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2019, 02:58:17 PM »
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Thanks a lot!

But following rules are still confusing for me (maybe due to non-native language):

If a dual-alignment card is different alignments at face-value it counts as all of those alignments for deck building purposes.
Does this mean cards like Anthropophobia do count as good and evil card at the same time (not either or)? If so - what's the purpose of this rule since in this case those cards are already fulfilling deck building rules inherently?

If neutral is one of the alignments the card counts as good and/or evil based on the other alignment(s).
So Covenants and Curses can never be count as neutral cards? If so what are neutral cards in this case besides Artefacts and Lost Souls?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 05:59:52 PM by Reth »

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2019, 06:15:25 PM »
+1
Good/evil cards like Anthropophobia, Fire Foxes, or King Jehu are effectively neutral for deckbuilding purposes. In addition to these types, souls, and artifacts, sites are also neutral.

Cards that are half neutral and half good/evil, like covenants or cities, count as the non-neutral alignment (so You Will Remain is a good card, and Babel is an evil card). You are correct in saying that covenants and curses never count as neutral, even if you'll never use them as an enhancement.
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Offline Reth

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Re: Best way to get into Type 2?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2019, 06:32:53 PM »
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Thanks again! Seems building a T2 deck is the most challanging version of deckbuilding!  :-\

 


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