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Quote from: lp670sv on July 01, 2011, 08:36:59 PM

I don't use them around children because the general society considers the words to be bad and i don't want children getting in trouble for repeating the things i've said, however if you are an adult and you can't handle a little cursing you need to grow up.

LOL. The irony of that statement.

I see no irony in saying that if you can't handle cursing you're a child who clearly isn't mature enough to think for yourself and assign your own weight to what people say. Get over yourself 'kay?

Also: I'm not a Christian so saying that Christians shouldn't use them doesn't apply to me. Good try though.

Indeed, to the general public, swearing is seen as a negative. But only because someone decided a long time ago that they didn't really like those particular words and assigned them the status of curse words. There is no reason for them to be other then the fact that society continues to perpetuate that they are. The only reason I don't swear in front of children is that I realize that not everyone shares my viewpoint on these words and that the children would most likely be punished for using them. That does not change how I view the words however.

The only reason I don't swear in front of children is that I realize that not everyone shares my viewpoint on these words and that the children would most likely be punished for using them. That does not change how I view the words however.

I understand that you do not view them as bad. Please understand that I am not telling you that you have to stop swearing. That is a choice for only you to make.

What I was addressing was the perception that the words carry no weight when you use them. They always carry weight, because someone is always listening (especially children, and usually when you think that they can't hear you).

I think that you realize the weight they carry, but you want the freedom to use them anyway. Again, that is your choice. Just understand that everything you say impacts someone somewhere. Therefore choosing to avoid certain words alleviates the burden of hurting (or offending) someone unnecessarily.

That is a very liberal standpoint.  For the most part all things are good or evil.  Words included. The bible is very clear on the matter. (Your outnumbered. This is a christian forum)

I wasn't. I was stating a fact.

Quote from: lp670sv on July 01, 2011, 08:59:13 PM

Does saying my dog s--- on the carpet mean anything different then my dog soiled that carpet? No. it doesn't. You want it to because you do not believe swear words to be acceptable because you have assigned them a value they should not carry

Which would you say in front of a child? I would think "soiled."

My point is simply that you know the meanings that are assigned, and you choose the words based on context. In context, all words have a specific meaning.

I simply choose, because of my own convictions, to use "soiled" every time.

Actually, I chose to not have pets so I wouldn't need to choose... 

Touche on that last bit haha

That is a very liberal standpoint.  For the most part all things are good or evil.  Words included. The bible is very clear on the matter. (Your outnumbered. This is a christian forum)

Saying I'm outnumbered isn't going to change anything. I play a Christian card game, fairly well I might add, I'm used to being the only Agnostic in the room so to speak. Saying the bible condemns something is also fairly useless against me, the bible is a guideline but it's not law to me. (Yes I have read it) There are also plenty of things the bible condones in certain places that are later said to be forbidden and likewise things that are forbidden that later are condoned. Times change.

I'm bowing out of this partly because of a fairly severe fever and the fact I have two people up my neck.

I did.... It's starting to work.

Quote from: lp670sv on July 01, 2011, 08:50:47 PM

The only reason I don't swear in front of children is that I realize that not everyone shares my viewpoint on these words and that the children would most likely be punished for using them.

So you will defer based on how the words might impact children, but not how they might impact adults?  Why are children more deserving of courtesy and consideration?

Children are impressionable. They are more likely to repeat my words, and then get in trouble for using them. That would be my fault having taught the child the word and not teaching them that other people do not like them. I would hope an adult would not simply repeat what I say. My concern is not out of courtesy from not having them hear the words but rather that they don't repeat them.

Quote from: lp670sv on July 01, 2011, 10:57:41 PM

My concern is not out of courtesy from not having them hear the words but rather that they don't repeat them.

If words are not inherently good or evil, why do you care if children repeat them?  If you don't care in the least how your words impact other people, why do you place value in teaching children to care about the same thing?

I don't know how to make this more clear. I do not believe words are inherently good or evil but Society DOES and I am well aware of that, I am more then willing to face whatever consequence comes from using the language I use but a child does not know better and would not understand. They would be getting punished with no idea why.

Well I'm on the subject of children not understanding that almost drives home my point. When a baby is born the only way it can tell if you are mad is if you raise your voice or use a specific tone. That is how words should be judged. By the intent behind them and not by what they actually are.

I don't know how to make this more clear.

You're clear, it's just your behavior contradicts your philosophy.  Not to mention it proceeds from the flawed assumption that you are in control of the circumstances under which you choose to use certain words.  You have no way of knowing who might catch what you say at any given time, and as humans are creatures of habit to begin with, years of common usage can - through no fault of your own (other than choosing to incorporate this language in the first place) - push the word past your lips even though little Johnny just walked in the door a moment before.

I am more then willing to face whatever consequence comes from using the language I use

Apparently you're not, because with this singular exception, you seem to want the rest of the world to alter their behavior to accommodate you, rather than take two seconds to respect the sensibilities of others.  They all need to "grow up" because apparently using language of this kind is a mark of maturity.

That is how words should be judged. By the intent behind them and not by what they actually are.

So your argument is that you swear without the intent to swear?  Because if that's not your argument, then you really just handed the whole discussion over to the other people who have been trying to tell you that they are judging your words by your intent and not by the fact that it might for example be a clever term for poopie.

Well I argue with kids 1/3 my age and I'm a man playing a child's game - or so the story goes - so I think we're in that same flotilla together.

The majority of the time I swear it is not meant to insulting or hostile.

So if I call you a brainless idiot who demonstrates to me why some animals eat their young, but say it's not meant to be insulting, is that perfectly acceptable in mixed company?  Do I have the luxury of ignoring the impact those words might have had on you?

This is a common situation among people who assume that our sense of right and wrong is entirely individual and not subject to a standard: the individuality vanishes the moment someone else wrongs you without thinking themselves wrong.

but if you are an adult and you get upset at me for swearing in a manor that is not meant to be openly hostile to you then I do think you need to take a step back and think for a second.

That's exactly my point, though.  Why are other people required to step back and think for a second about something that you imposed upon them?  That to me sounds like the exact opposite of facing the consequences of your use of language.

In most situations I am about 95% certain no child is within ear shot.

And if I ran an electric utility that was operational 95% of the time, I would be reimbursing you for the three weeks out of every year where you had no power in your household at all.

When I am in the nerd cave of a house... I can hear anyone coming about 45 second before they reach a point where they would actually be able to hear me swearing under my breath.

Your argument isn't about what you do when you're all alone, though, because then there would be no question about offending other people.  It's about your "right" to say whatever you want whenever you want and everybody else's "need" to accommodate your habits, but your supposed impunity from any need to accommodate anyone you deem sufficiently competent.

And if they are indeed habits, then you risk having your conditioned behavior override your better judgement when you're out of that situation.  It's not logical to presume that our actions are isolated and have no formative power on future performance.