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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Entertainment => Topic started by: Minion of Jesus on July 03, 2012, 08:17:11 PM
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Who loves Pixar movies?
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I was quoting toy story today but I can't repeat it "because there are pre-school toys present"
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I love 'em! Favorites are the Toy Story movies, Cars, Wall-E, and The Incredibles.
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Pixar has a knack for making kids movies that have more depth, rounder characters and better pacing than most "adult" movies Hollywood offers up. With few exceptions, Pixar always delivers a wholesome family movie rather than a flimsy children's movie.
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Agree with Pol. The new movie, Brave, is probably the most controversial due to a bit of witchcraft/spells (and apparently Cars 2 was essentially environmentalist propoganda from what I heard, but I never saw it). My favorite is Nemo, with Up being a close second, but they are all pretty good that I've seen.
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I'll start by saying the original toy story has got to be my favorite animated film of all time.
But... Pixar as a whole bugs me :-\
I really feel like at times they have used their platform to push social and political ideas in a way that was directly targeting children. I know every director/producer puts there world view into a film but I don't feel like its fair to target young and impressionable minds like they have before.
Again, I saw Brave about a week or 2 ago. It was cute and made me laugh.
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I'll start by saying the original toy story has got to be my favorite animated film of all time.
But... Pixar as a whole bugs me :-
I really feel like at times they have used their platform to push social and political ideas in a way that was directly targeting children. I know every director/producer puts there world view into a film but I don't feel like its fair to target young and impressionable minds like they have before.
Again, I saw Brave about a week or 2 ago. It was cute and made me laugh.
That's what I heard about Cars 2, but I can't think of any examples from the movies I've seen. I guess Wall-E maybe...but I didn't think it was that bad since the example was so extreme.
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Before you read the rest, let me say I Am reading into this on pourpose to get a point across ;)
(A Bugs life) The little Guy is oppressed by the Goverment. UNITE AND OVERCOME!
(Monsters Inc.) Energy Company is Evil and unwilling to look at alternative energy sources.
(Wall-E) Not even going there :o
(Brave) Feminist, and a very subtle jab at how we should allow gay marriage.
I never saw Cars 2.
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Cars 2 wasn't all that good, and neither was Bugs Life. However, I don't think that is what they were looking at exactly with Monsters Inc. Agree with Minister Pol.
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Before you read the rest, let me say I Am reading into this on pourpose to get a point across ;)
(A Bugs life) The little Guy is oppressed by the Goverment. UNITE AND OVERCOME!
(Monsters Inc.) Energy Company is Evil and unwilling to look at alternative energy sources.
(Wall-E) Not even going there :o
(Brave) Feminist, and a very subtle jab at how we should allow gay marriage.
I never saw Cars 2.
How is Brave "a subtle jab at how we should allow gay marriage?"
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It was a one liner.
If you want me to walk you through it you can pm me. I don't need to post it here.
Don't get me wrong. I do like the Pixar movies! Just gets me sometimes cause there "kids movies."
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100% agreement with Jerome on this Pixar has attempted to indoctrinate children with liberal idealism in many of there movies. Personally I strongly dislike Walle-E the most.
I saw brave as well not sure I see the gay marriage thing quite as boldly as Jerome but I can see where that idea comes from.
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The basic plot outline of A Bug's Life is one that's been around for centuries. It's a classic tale, and implying that it's something so grand as a political statement that the little guy should overthrow "the man" is, in my opinion, pretty ridiculous. Somehow having an environmental message and encouraging kids to exercise and not pollute is pushing a liberal agenda? I haven't seen it, but simply because Brave has a female protagonist who opts to take action rather than be a housewife, it means it's pushing feminism? Really? I haven't seen Monsters Inc. in ages, nor Cars 2, but you're really, really reaching. Moreover, I love it when Christians throw around terms like "indoctrination" completely unironically.
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You guys make me laugh. ;D
Children don't watch movies the way that adults watch movies. Children can't pronounce "liberal idealism" let alone recognize it in a movie. The only peripheral effect that Wall-E will have on a child is to make them pick up their trash.
You can read into a movie all you want, but that's not going to change its entertainment value to a child, or that child's parent. Bambi was one of the most watched animated films of all time, but we still have the NRA. Parents have significantly more impact on a child's development than Pixar movies.
I love the Pixar movies, and so do my children. So far my 14-year-old has shown no signs of liberalism.
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For the first time in history YMT and Chris agree on something. Sure sign of the apocalypse I think.
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For the first time in history YMT and Chris agree on something. Sure sign of the apocalypse I think.
I agreed with you selling your 3DS to your friend for $200, if that helps. ;D
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Although I agree that parents have more impact on their children then movies do, not all children have parents to guide them to understanding.
I would allow my children (when I have some) to watch Pixar films and to enjoy them.
It's like my parents used to say though trash in, trash out. If you walked around the halls of a high school you would realize the impact some of these agenda's are having on teenagers. I had a girl threaten to kill me in highschool because I hunt. (Talk about Ironic)
Finally, I think all of this is matter of opinion. Some may say "yes, there is an agenda" and some "no". Some may agree or disagree about whether its good or not. The truth for this situation is in the eye of the beholder.
@Chris
I don't know what your experience has been with Christianity and if you feel people attempted to indoctrinate you with it, but I would say
1. I grew up in a Pastor's house and never once felt that my faith was forced on me.
2. Most (If not all) Christian parents will talk to their children about making their faith there own. Parents will encourage their kids to test scripture for themselves and see if they find truth.
3. I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus alone can save. Nothing I do can save me and all I can do is enter into relationship with my Savior. My belief is that Christianity is the only way to heaven and that a life with Christ is happier, and healthier. (I'm referring to emotional health not physical). This leads to happy marriages, loving family and effective ministry. (I am not saying that Christians will not suffer or face hardship, we are called to take up our cross). All that said I believe raising a child up in the ways of the Lord is the best plan of action for a parent. I long for my children to be emotionally healthy in a world full of broken people. I desire to seey children in heaven. I pray that they will serve the one and only God and that their ministries will be impactful. So will I "indoctrinate" my children with Christianity, no, but will I teach them through love, grace and discipline that truth is found in Jesus, emphatically yes.
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I said from the beginning I was going to "read into it."
I'm sorry to sound like such a downer, I thoroughly enjoy Pixar films. I have seen all of them except cars 2 and liked all but Wall-E
As to brave, I didn't drop the feminist tag on it because of the lead characters plot. I had no problem with it. (it was also pixar's first female lead) I said it because ALL of the men in the movie were utterly incompetent of any constructive action. I will say of the little list I made I will say Brave was my biggest leap. I DID LIKE THE MOVIE!
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If you walked around the halls of a high school you would realize the impact some of these agenda's are having on teenagers. I had a girl threaten to kill me in highschool because I hunt. (Talk about Ironic)
Are you suggesting that watching Bambi made that girl threaten you? If not then this isn't the place for that memory. I would argue that there are much deeper personal and family issues with that girl.
The problem here is attaching behavior of children to one aspect of their life - movies. I agree that we need to shield our children from overt antiChristian images. We had this debate earlier where I made it clear that I will not watch (or let my family watch) movies that depict images that I don't think they should see. But here we are talking about Pixar movies that can not possibly be detrimental visually. So now the question becomes subtle themes? Children are not going to have their lives forever ruined by a Pixar film. And Pixar films are not going to make a child threaten to kill other students in school. If those things happen, then I would argue that there were other catalysts.
I agree that not all kids have good parents, but that will be the underlying problem with their future behavior, not Pixar movies. If anything, Pixar movies teach good morals, so the children may turn out better than their parents could have raised them.
Besides if political activism is all bad, then why do Christians do it, too?
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Finally, I think all of this is matter of opinion. Some may say "yes, there is an agenda" and some "no". Some may agree or disagree about whether its good or not. The truth for this situation is in the eye of the beholder.
Never said political activism is a bad thing, not at all I just don't appreciate it being the underlying message of movies that children watch for entertainment.
As for the girl that threatened me, your right that there are probably deeper issues then her watching Bambi however, I don't discount that it could have impacted her as a child and pointed her in a direction. Neither of us can say for sure either way.
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Neither of us can say for sure either way.
But that's just it. You have stepped into a thread about "who likes Pixar movies" and interjected your own "conservative idealism" agenda. That would seem to make you guilty of what you are accusing Pixar of doing.
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No bc this forum is 13 and up and I'm not marketing to millions of toddlers and elementary age students
I am on a forum and the topic was brought up so I joined the conversation and added my opinion.
Not even close to the same thing.
Not to mention my political view points have not been stated at all other then saying I hunt. (you can assume u know my positions) but I bet you would be quite surprised by a lot of my own political beliefs.
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Not to mention my political view points have not been stated at all other then saying I hunt.
You are accusing Pixar of indoctrinating liberal idealism with animated movies. Your political views are quite clear.
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Are they or are they not doing that?
I simply stated a truth I didn't state my opinion either way.
I am all for taking care of our planet and fulfilling the charge that God gave us to rule over the plants and animals.
I totally support the rise of woman's equality and support strong women in America. The gospel liberates women everywhere it breaks in, China, the Middle East, Russia ect.
I believe in caring for the poor and down trodden. I don't want to be a goat when the flock is separated.
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Are they or are they not doing that?
Based on everything you said after this quote, it is possible that they are not.
If you want to see the indoctrination of liberal idealism in a movie then watch The American President (which I do not recommend for entertainment value, btw).
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i will have to check it out. just for kicks
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I just want companies to be honest with themselves. Both CNN & Fox claim to be "fair and balanced" but we all know that's not true.
People can argue that Christians have tried big budget "indoctrination" but there some major differences. One being the chronicles of Narnia and the LOTR were not paid for and produced by Christians. The other being films like fireproof and courageous make no apologies and make no attempt to hide there message. People know what there getting into when they decided to watch these films.
Companies like Pixar and Disney have had a history of interjecting political/social views. (as dose every single other company!) it just bugs me that these movies are geared toward kids.
I've made my peace, I'll be happy to read others opinions, :D
I don't need to hit this nail again.
I'm sincerely sorry for any offenses
I simply stated my opinion
Still Love Toy Story!
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Companies like Pixar and Disney have had a history of interjecting political/social views. (as dose every single other company!) it just bugs me that these movies are geared toward kids.
Your concerns are unnecessary because the population you are talking about goes to the movies with their parents. We can handle the indoctrinations just fine. ;)
I'm sincerely sorry for any offenses
No offense taken. We're still brothers in Christ and that supercedes entertainment differences. ;D
I simply stated my opinion
And Pixar is just stating theirs. Can't we all just get along? ;D
Still Love Toy Story!
Finding Nemo is my favorite of the Pixar movies.
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That takes my number 2 spot for sure! I like sharks.
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Companies like Pixar and Disney have had a history of interjecting political/social views. (as dose every single other company!) it just bugs me that these movies are geared toward kids.
Your concerns are unnecessary because the population you are talking about goes to the movies with their parents. We can handle the indoctrinations just fine. ;)
I'm sincerely sorry for any offenses
No offense taken. We're still brothers in Christ and that supercedes entertainment differences. ;D
I simply stated my opinion
And Pixar is just stating theirs. Can't we all just get along? ;D
Still Love Toy Story!
Finding Nemo is my favorite of the Pixar movies.
Even despite its clear vegan message?? Well...
But seriously, I agree. Finding Nemo happens to be my favorite Disney movie overall.
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Just enjoy the movies and not argue over the possibitbly that they might have underlying political themes.... please?
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Hey red some of us enjoy the art of debate/discussion and derive some
amount of entertainment from it. If you choose to enjoy the movies and not think deeper on them that is your prerogative to do so.
Additional note Finding Nemo is a pixar movie not disney, just clarifying for ya prof.
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The Incredibles is definitely one of my favs. After that, it is rather difficult to decide.
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
Up is epic!
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I enjoy debate. I just don't start them on the merits of children's movies... hahaha.
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
Up is epic!
How could I forget that one?
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Hey red some of us enjoy the art of [...] movies
The Dark Knight is more artsy.
As an aside, it's impossible not to push some kind of an agenda in children's programming, no matter what your goal is. The difference is some of the lessons are universal, and thus, nobody is against them ("I hate Toy Story! Pushing that disgusting liberal friendship agenda!") and others are, apparently, not. I'm still not exactly sure what makes any Pixar movie overtly liberal (I'm not sure how anyone can suggest anything in Wall-E is bad, other than that I didn't like the movie itself), but to each his own I suppose. FWIW though, if you'll yell at Pixar for supposedly indoctrinating children, Veggie Tales does the same thing.
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But veggie tails is owned and marketed as christian. Anyone who watches Bob and Larry knows what there getting into. Not to mention the old school veggie movies were marketed as teaching tools for kids.
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Why are ya bashing Pixar for something that "might" be there where there are movies like Happy Feet and Bee Movie that are blatantly obvious about their message? If there is an agenda behind Pixar, you will have to look heard for them (and kids just don't care that much) while the two movies above shoves it down your throat.
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Additional note Finding Nemo is a pixar movie not disney, just clarifying for ya prof.
It's actually both:
Finding Nemo is a 2003 American computer-animated comedy-drama film written and directed by Andrew Stanton, produced by Pixar Animation Studios, and released by Walt Disney Pictures.
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But veggie tails is owned and marketed as christian.
I think that this is where your approach is faulty. If I am a Christian I will announce myself as Christian. If someone is non-Christian, do they really have to announce that?
Hey red some of us enjoy the art of [...] movies
The Dark Knight is more artsy.
Why exactly did you purposefully misquote him?
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My feeling is that writers struggle to get depth of plot and characters. In order to have that depth, there needs to be an underlying message. Pixar has chosen secular messages, but is that really surprising for a secular company? I still think you are reading into this matter incorrectly.
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IMO your actually agreeing with me YMT. I don't dislike Pixar. I have seen all of their movies - cars 2. I just "noticed" repetitive themes across several of the films.
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IMO your actually agreeing with me YMT.
Dems fightin' words! :maul: ;)
I do not at all agree that the underlying themes are "indoctrinations of liberal idealism." The themes I see are:
1. Recycling is a good thing. (Wall-E)
2. Parents need to communicate with their children better. (Nemo)
3. Change can be a good thing. (Toy Story)
4. We should revisit some traditions of yesteryear. (Cars)
5. Sometimes the things we think we want are not what we really need. (Up!)
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The Incredibles is overtly conservative as its message flies in the face of the Liberal "self-esteem" agenda, and it actively promotes exceptionalism and the nuclear family.
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The Incredibles is overtly conservative as its message flies in the face of the Liberal "self-esteem" agenda, and it actively promotes exceptionalism and the nuclear family.
IMO your actually agreeing with me YMT.
Dems fightin' words! :maul: ;)
I do not at all agree that the underlying themes are "indoctrinations of liberal idealism." The themes I see are:
1. Recycling is a good thing. (Wall-E)
2. Parents need to communicate with their children better. (Nemo)
3. Change can be a good thing. (Toy Story)
4. We should revisit some traditions of yesteryear. (Cars)
5. Sometimes the things we think we want are not what we really need. (Up!)
+1 to both.
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Ok, I see the problem now, I wasn't arguing at all that the messages were right or wrong. I never once argued that Pixar was Liberal, granted the eviormental groups almost always get put in that category, but that in itself is stereotyping. I never once claimed Pixar leans Right or Left. I strongly agree with some but not all of the messages that I see in their movies. I just don't think the messages should be there.
I'm not saying pushing moral values is bad. I belive you can teach morals in a story (as its been done for thousands of years) it's simply when a political belief is displayed (right or left) toward children who will not always have there parents around when watching a movie or television cartoon isn't cool IMO.
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Ok, I see the problem now, I wasn't arguing at all that the messages were right or wrong. I never once argued that Pixar was Liberal,....
That would be the other Jbeers. I mixed up the quotes from you two since your screen names are so close. :o
I just don't think the messages should be there.
This is what we disagree on. The "message" is really just an underlying theme, and that theme is necessary to give the plot depth. Without that depth, the story would be lame and the movie would fail. The depth of plot and character development are part of what makes Pixar movies stand out above other animated movies.
it's simply when a political belief is displayed (right or left) toward children who will not always have there parents around when watching a movie or television cartoon isn't cool IMO.
"Displaying" a political belief is nearly impossible to avoid, especially when under the scruntinizing eyes of certain Christians. You're seeing what you want to see rather than what is necessarily intended. The display of these themes is not nearly as detrimental as you are presuming.
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And I can tell you maybe in your area you don't see the effect as much.
(just a fact here)
The area I live in typically votes Republican but safe to say far more than half of the kids that I had talked with in highschool argued very strongly for democratic views. Unfortunately students today (maybe just in my school) have a very flimsy understanding of politics and religion. I have said this many times to people in a debate. I do not care what you belive so long as you understand why you belive it. There ARE kids who's only political education came from the media.
A perfect example of this in my school came in the form of (GasLand) the movie. I will not get into a debate about energy sources here! I do not care about your or my views about natural gas for this argument... The movie falsely attributes ailments in a community to the newly built well. It simply wasn't true. There had been a cole mining disaster years befor which was responsible for most of the issues. The problem for me was that all freshmen and soft mores were required to watch the film in school and absolutally no counter argent was made. You should have seen the emotion in these kids. I have never seen the group as a whole so interest in attacking something before. If a word was spoken in favor of natural gas literally 2-4 students would say, "didn't you see the movie?" or "dude that stuffs terrible." when they had done no extra research into the topic. I actually spoke with my prisable about the issue I had "not that they showed the movie but that there was no counter made." and nicely put all I got was a thank you for your concern.
Now I know Pixar is not GasLand or any movie like it. I have just seen in my life that kids and students are impressionable and few have talked with there parents in a way that would allow them to Really understand any political view.
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Everything is a political view. Trying to scrub all traces of it out of a story is tantamount to trying to eliminate bias in a discussion. Both are literally impossible. What you should be left with is a complaint against parents and the public school system, not Pixar.
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And I can tell you maybe in your area you don't see the effect as much.
It would be more accurate to say that your area experienced an extreme example that is isolated. To affix the misguided principles of GasLand to Pixar movies is illogical. There are plenty of politically-charged movies out there, especially on Netflix. The fact that your school showed the movie shows the bias of individuals within the school. The fault, in your example, lies outside of the movie industry.
Regardless, lumping Pixar into the same mix as South Park simply doesn't make any sense. I realize that you were personally affected by the GasLand experience, but your overreaction is causing generalizations that are not true. Besides, we are talking about children for Pixar movies, rather than teenagers for GasLand. The correlation you are trying to make is not there.
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I've never seen South Park so I don't get the connection.
We don't have a way to prove my area is extream just as we don't have a way to prove your area is doing well (which I'm extremely grateful to hear :) )
Everything is a political view. Trying to scrub all traces of it out of a story is tantamount to trying to eliminate bias in a discussion. Both are literally impossible. What you should be left with is a complaint against parents and the public school system, not Pixar.
I can hear that.
If you go wayyyyy back to my first post it sumed up fellings for Pixar,
They gave me one of my favorite movies ever and it only "bugs me sometimes"
I can hear that there is virtually no way to elimanate bias. Now that I'm really thinking about it, I'd say I agree with you.
But I guess that means everything bugs me :-[
My life will be sad :'(
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I've never seen South Park so I don't get the connection.
Don't watch it just to get the connection.... please. ;)
We don't have a way to prove my area is extream just as we don't have a way to prove your area is doing well (which I'm extremely grateful to hear :) )
You have said this before. This is also faulty logic. If it cannot be proven either way, then it was improper for you to interject your unproven philosophy as a statement of fact. You made claims about the "true" intentions of Pixar in a variety of their movies in your second post. If you agree now that those cannot be proven, then there was no need for you state them as you did.
But I guess that means everything bugs me :-[
My life will be sad :'(
Or you could just enjoy life and not let little things like this get to you. If you spend your whole life reading into things, you will miss the bigger picture.
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1st part: wasn't planing on it :)
2nd part: I was making the point that it was philosophical.
3rd part: it was sarcasum :) I'm a happy guy :)
(don't read into that last part ;))
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(don't read into that last part ;))
I never do! ;D
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There ARE kids who's only political education came from the media.
Don't try to characterize indoctrination as a "liberal thing," there are people whose only political education came from the pulpit.
I have just seen in my life that kids and students are impressionable and few have talked with there parents in a way that would allow them to Really understand any political view.
Then are these students understanding their view, or their parents'?
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I'm not accusing people of indoctrination. More of like a by product when a child doesn't have politically minded parents or involved parents.
It has happen from the pulpit, but for myself and my denomination it is illegal for a pastor or Sunday school teacher to carry a political view from a teaching position. They can be fired for recommending a vote or view.
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+1 with Jerome
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
Bah! Up! may be a fine movie, but is definitely not up to the level of a classic like Batman Begins*. ;)
*Batman Begins is not, technically, an animated movie, but you understand my point.
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
Bah! Up! may be a fine movie, but is definitely not up to the level of a classic like Batman Begins*. ;)
*Batman Begins is not, technically, an animated movie, but you understand my point.
So you should have a profile pic from batman begins.
Wierd, I didn't mean to start a thread that would turn into a political debate. ::)
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Wierd, I didn't mean to start a thread that would turn into a political debate. ::)
That was not at all your fault. Your original question was simple enough.
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
Bah! Up! may be a fine movie, but is definitely not up to the level of a classic like Batman Begins*. ;)
*Batman Begins is not, technically, an animated movie, but you understand my point.
So you should have a profile pic from batman begins.
You missed the reference. And the sarcasm.
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Wierd, I didn't mean to start a thread that would turn into a political debate. ::)
That was not at all your fault. Your original question was simple enough.
The question was only simple to those who are in complete denial about the powerful brain washing force that is The Pixar. ;)
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This thread has a stark lack of the greatest animated movie of all time: Up!
Bah! Up! may be a fine movie, but is definitely not up to the level of a classic like Batman Begins*. ;)
*Batman Begins is not, technically, an animated movie, but you understand my point.
So you should have a profile pic from batman begins.
You missed the reference. And the sarcasm.
Incorrect. You missed MY sarcasm. :P
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Whoa. When I Clicked on this this thread I did not expect... whatever it is that is going on here.
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Lol perhaps a new Pixar thread should be started strictly for discussing the entertainment value of Pixar films lol
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Wouldn't "The Pixar" be an excellent name for some mysterious (or even dangerous) alien race in STtNG?
"Captain it appears we are being scanned by the automated defense forces of The Pixar."
"Get us out of here, Number One."
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Lol perhaps a new Pixar thread should be started strictly for discussing the entertainment value of Pixar films lol
That was what this thread was for, hence its placement in "Entertainment." :P
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True statement :-p
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Whoa. When I Clicked on this this thread I did not expect... whatever it is that is going on here.
Neither did I.
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Wouldn't "The Pixar" be an excellent name for some mysterious (or even dangerous) alien race in STtNG?
"Captain it appears we are being scanned by the automated defense forces of The Pixar."
"Get us out of here, Number One."
Aye, Aye, Captain!
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi686.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv222%2Ftimrebeccajoshuamiriam%2FLegoland098.jpg&hash=d0e38d8c2aed07614fba640413d185e1dd71f8a1)