Author Topic: Dr. Who: The Impossible Astronaut Spoilers (Read 20362 times)

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:55:17 AM »

If River is jailed for killing Rory, expect a 4 page rant from me.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2011, 10:48:17 AM »

Ohsnapididntthinkofthat.

Don't we have to wait until Fall for the next episode?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #27 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:35:07 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on June 07, 2011, 03:55:17 AM

If River is jailed for killing Rory, expect a 4 page rant from me.

...and she'll just get out again.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #28 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:43:49 PM »

Yeah, and after thinking about it, Rory makes more sense then I originally thought. Mostly because Rory is a good man and the Doctor isn't. Also, Rory was the guy with the gun and sword in the episode. If Moffat kills Rory and says "LOL WE'RE NOT BRINGING HIM BACK THIS TIME" then brings him back in the finale (or close to it), I'm going to be mad. Moffat has killed Rory like 9 times so far ;(. Even if he kills Rory and makes him stay dead he already messed up.

Here's to hoping that River isn't the astronaut either. That'd be really boring. I hope it's the doctor's daughter.

Although overall it was a good episode. That Sontaran nurse was awesome.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #29 on:** June 07, 2011, 04:18:47 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on June 07, 2011, 03:43:49 PM

Yeah, and after thinking about it, Rory makes more sense then I originally thought. Mostly because Rory is a good man and the Doctor isn't. Also, Rory was the guy with the gun and sword in the episode. If Moffat kills Rory and says "LOL WE'RE NOT BRINGING HIM BACK THIS TIME" then brings him back in the finale (or close to it), I'm going to be mad. Moffat has killed Rory like 9 times so far ;(. Even if he kills Rory and makes him stay dead he already messed up.

Here's to hoping that River isn't the astronaut either. That'd be really boring. I hope it's the doctor's daughter.

Although overall it was a good episode. That Sontaran nurse was awesome.

Yeah, the whole good man thing was why it made so much sense. I don't want him to die...

I originally thought River was the astronaut.
The doctor's daughter is River...right? Because it's not actually the doctor's daughter...right?

Agreed on the nurse. The episode felt too rushed though. For being his highest moment, it didn't seem too glorious, because you didn't really know what was going on.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #30 on:** June 07, 2011, 04:34:48 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 04:18:47 PM

Yeah, the whole good man thing...

I thought that was really cool how they said that a good man doesn't need rules, and that the Doctor has sooo many rules. That was an interesting and true idea, but it has very bad connotations.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 04:18:47 PM

I originally thought River was the astronaut. The doctor's daughter is River...right? Because it's not actually the doctor's daughter...right?

I'm confused. I thought that it was made clear that River was Amy & Rory's daughter. And I thought it was also made clear that she WAS in the astronaut uniform.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 04:18:47 PM

For being his highest moment, it didn't seem too glorious.

Agreed, I think that the Doctor has had much higher moments before (ie. when he saves the day at the end of "The Doctor Dances").

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #31 on:** June 07, 2011, 04:42:57 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 07, 2011, 04:34:48 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 04:18:47 PM
I originally thought River was the astronaut. The doctor's daughter is River...right? Because it's not actually the doctor's daughter...right?
I'm confused. I thought that it was made clear that River was Amy & Rory's daughter. And I thought it was also made clear that she WAS in the astronaut uniform.

It was very clear that River was Amy and Rory's daughter. However, the "Doctor's Daughter" child (who was in the astronaut suit) from early on was River. So, the "Doctor's Daughter" is River, but she's actually not the doctor's daughter, she just happens to be part Time Lord when he's the only Time Lord left.
My question is if River is the one who was in the astronaut suit that kills the Doctor in the beginning of the season...

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #32 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:03:01 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 04:18:47 PM

I originally thought River was the astronaut.
The doctor's daughter is River...right? Because it's not actually the doctor's daughter...right?

She very well might be. But I'm hoping otherwise, that'd be boring.

By Doctor's kid I meant it in the most literal fashion. In the past he's admitted he has had children. His first companion called him grandpa (this may not be because she was his granddaughter, but just an endearing term). But most importantly, Alex Kingston (who is probably the person without the last name of Moffat that is most up-to-date with the plot) either gave a hint or is trolling everyone. ("Is it ONLY the Doctor's cot? How many babies have been in that cot, basically? *trollface*).

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #33 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:06:10 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 04:42:57 PM

My question is if River is the one who was in the astronaut suit that kills the Doctor in the beginning of the season...

I think that it is likely that River does kill the "Doctor" in the beginning of the season. My thinking is that she is programmed to kill him as a child. Then she lures him to that point in history (when she is a child and the Dr is 200 years older than now) and kills him. However, she grows up and then interacts with him and falls in love with him. However, she can't go back and change her own past for some reason to keep her younger self from killing his older self. This would also explain why she (as her older self watching her younger self kill him) tells Amy and Rory to NOT tell the Doctor about his death.

However, my question at this point is whether she really killed the Doctor at all, or did she just kill a Flesh copy of the Doctor?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #34 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:07:33 PM »

http://twitter.com/#!/steven_moffat/status/77980465453207552

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #35 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:10:09 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 04, 2011, 01:15:54 AM

So, the Doctor doesn't die. His Doppleganger somehow survives and then dies. Too simple for this show...

Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 07, 2011, 05:06:10 PM

However, my question at this point is whether she really killed the Doctor at all, or did she just kill a Flesh copy of the Doctor?

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on June 07, 2011, 05:07:33 PM

http://twitter.com/#!/steven_moffat/status/77980465453207552

We just got owned.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #36 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:11:49 PM »

But what if River was just keeping a secret and knew it was the flesh!?#?1/3

Amy: Maybe he's a clone or a duplicate or something.
Canton: I believe I can save you some time. That most certainly is the Doctor. And he is most certainly dead.

Although Canton has no way to know, it seems pretty clear Moffat doesn't want to use a cheap cop out like that. I'm going to be disappointed if he does.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #37 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:27:19 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 05:10:09 PM

We just got owned.

I don't think so. When someone answers a question with another question, that is because they don't want to give away the truth by answering the first question. When their question leads in one direction, the truth is usually in the opposite direction.

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on June 07, 2011, 05:11:49 PM

But what if River was just keeping a secret and knew it was the flesh!?#?1/3
Although Canton has no way to know

Exactly. Canton doesn't know, and River could be keeping a secret (or the Doctor could have messed up her sonic).

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #38 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:30:05 PM »

The doctor would have melted if he had been killed, wouldn't he have?

Maybe the flesh Doctor will just fill in the doctor's spot. Really, nothing would be different...would it?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #39 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:51:11 PM »

It not being him is the most obvious reveal that can happen, that isn't in Doctor Who's style. That alone devalidates it to a large extent. Canton has no way to know, but Moffat does, which suggests that it is the truth, essentially foreshadowing.

I'm pretty sure it said on the confidential that it was the real Doctor anyway, but I'm too lazy to go check.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #40 on:** June 09, 2011, 08:58:50 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 07, 2011, 05:30:05 PM

The doctor would have melted if he had been killed, wouldn't he have?

Maybe the flesh Doctor will just fill in the doctor's spot. Really, nothing would be different...would it?

They only melt when their signal is lost (I think).

I'm pretty annoyed that the whole thing was just a soap opera. I watch Dr. Who to see the Doctor be brilliant, not long and convoluted plots. If I wanted that, I'd just put Inception on a loop.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #41 on:** July 11, 2011, 09:36:55 PM »

I'm really starting to dislike this season. After re watching The Doctors Wife, I can easily say that it's the best episode since the Curse of Fenric. Blink is no match. Smith is absolutely brilliant, the third best doctor of all time easily (<7th, 4th). Rory is one of my favorite companions, top 5 easily. The character development has been top notch, so I'll give Moffat credit for that.

However, Moffat is ruining it. Moffat is ruining what could be absolutely amazing, he's honestly just choking. The best episodes of New Who have all been written by Moffat (with the exception of the Doctor's Wife): The Doctor Dances, Blink, Silence in the Library, The Girl in the Fireplace. But since he's taken over, he has failed. The only good story he's written has been the pandorica, which is still a failure for a couple reasons.

If what BBC's twitter has made so obvious isn't just a red herring, I'm done with Moffat. I'm not asking for something completely mind blowing, I don't even want that. But if Moffat decides to take the most obvious, least clever, and boring solutions to the (poorly constructed) problems he's introduced, there's no point in watching.

Even if it is a red herring, I really hope someone else takes over soon, someone who won't kill and revive characters for drama. Hopefully Moffat can still work on some episodes, but what Moffat has done makes Davies look decent.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2011, 01:15:12 AM »

Basically everything you just said contradicted what you've been saying about Moffat. I agree to a point. If he does take the obvious and easy way out, I'll rage quit Doctor Who.

And Curse of Fenric wasn't that great, although I did like the 7th Doctor.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2011, 01:26:17 AM »

I've been yelling at him for his new stuff for a while now. His old stuff is still the best new who has to offer. The character development in his new stuff is still fine. Essentially, anything he's done for the 11th doctor is disappointing. Besides character development. Not a fan of the comedic 7th doctor. The manipulative 7th doctor is the best doctor ever.

The Curse of Fenric is the best episode not named the Caves of Androzani.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2011, 01:50:40 PM »

What's so great about Caves of Androzani? I'm watching it again, but there's nothing fantastic.

Interestingly enough, they took the easy way out for that episode when you saw the Doctor die at the beginning.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #45 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:09:24 PM »

The 5th doctor's other stuff isn't very good, but his acting in the Caves of Androzani is really good. His interaction and chemistry with Perri is fantastic as well. The setting is one of the most memorable from any who serial. Jek is an absolutely fantastic character, just a loving romantic guy who is also psychotic and kidnaps you for your looks. The story line is particularly good and leveled off nicely; not just flat. There's problems of dying for the Doctor and Perri, there's the ongoing war, there's the fued between Magus and Jek, etc. That serial also has some of the best dialogue of all time ("I can take an insult, I just don't want to be shot" is fantastic, and "My mind is nearly equal to his? What amazing conceit" is my favorite line of all time). The regeneration was done masterfully.

I'm not a fan of the execution, but that isn't comparable to what Moffat is doing. Caves of Androzani is Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been and Moffat is Dallas.

Another episode better then Blink you should watch is Remembrance of the Daleks.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #46 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:19:19 PM »

Spoilers may be inside.

The story was completely mediocre, regardless of how much was going on.

Jek was good, but the rest of the characters were pretty much uninteresting. Including the Doctor and Perri. No quirk, little humor, no manipulation, some brilliance, no anger.

The dialogue was also mediocre. This serial is essentially two episodes of the New Who, and one episode of New Who has more in it than this one.

I'll agree that the regeneration was good.

The Curse of Fenric (which still doesn't beat Blink, IMO) has:
Interesting characters. Ace is 100x better than Perri, and is probably my favorite companion (although I haven't watched anything else with her in it yet). Fenric is an extremely in depth character. The Doctor has all the elements a doctor should have. The pastor is also a really good character. The hemavoirs or whatever they're called are great, and their weakness is very unique and interesting.
Good story. Both Ace and the Doctor are involved, with the Doctor meeting Fenric before, and Ace being a wolf of Fenric. They aren't just meddling into somebody else's affairs, and yet it's not all about them. The rest of the story is decent, involving history, mythology, and logic.
Nice ending. The Doctor's need to destroy the psychological barrier was a nice finale.

Relooking at it, it should probably be better than Blink, but I'm a fan of the modern effects and production, so it's hard to go there. I think it is though. The Curse of Fenric>Blink>The Girl in the Fireplace>The Doctor's Wife>>>>>>The Caves of Androzani.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #47 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:37:01 PM »

I have not read this thread. However, since I have heard so much about Dr. Who, I am interested in checking it out. I have Netflix, so does anyone have a suggestion as to where a n00b should start?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #48 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:56:18 PM »

Because it's not like the Caves of Androzani has been voted as the best, or close to it, episode by multiple polls, right? That Doctor isn't supposed to be manipulative. The 5th Doctor is distant, almost non-caring about wrong doing. Did you notice that? His goal wasn't to stop the war, his goal was to leave. He wanted to save Perri, not all the gun runners. Learn to respect brilliance

. At least you can recognize how good the Curse of Fenric is, it's absolutely brilliant. It summarizes The 7th Doctor perfectly: Dark, manipulative, for the greater good. The chess analogy is perfect.

@YMT
When the Doctor "dies", he regenerates into a different form. New looks, new personality, new actor. There have been 11 Doctors so far. I'd suggest starting with the 9th, Christopher Eccleston. Just search Netflix for Series or Season 1 Doctor Who, it's from 2005. It's the first season after a 15+ year hiatus, so it showcases the premise fairly well for new viewers. However, many of the enemies and storylines seem subpar, and I'm not a fan of the 9th compared to the 10th or 11th. So, if you end up liking the first season, just keep in mind it gets soo much better when the 9th doctor is replaced.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #49 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:41:18 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on July 12, 2011, 08:56:18 PM

Because it's not like the Caves of Androzani has been voted as the best, or close to it, episode by multiple polls, right?

And the majority probably thinks that Casey Anthony is guilty. That doesn't make it true.

Quote

That Doctor isn't supposed to be manipulative. The 5th Doctor is distant, almost non-caring about wrong doing. Did you notice that? His goal wasn't to stop the war, his goal was to leave. He wanted to save Perri, not all the gun runners. Learn to respect brilliance .

The Doctor is the Doctor. Every single other incarnation I've seen of him has the same basic principles. I must confess that I didn't notice that, and it was unique for the Doctor, but it just wasn't the Doctor.

Quote

@YMT
When the Doctor "dies", he regenerates into a different form. New looks, new personality, new actor. There have been 11 Doctors so far. I'd suggest starting with the 9th, Christopher Eccleston. Just search Netflix for Series or Season 1 Doctor Who, it's from 2005. It's the first season after a 15+ year hiatus, so it showcases the premise fairly well for new viewers. However, many of the enemies and storylines seem subpar, and I'm not a fan of the 9th compared to the 10th or 11th. So, if you end up liking the first season, just keep in mind it gets soo much better when the 9th doctor is replaced.

Yeah, I had to force myself to watch the first of the New Who. I was really confused when I tried to start with the 10th Doctor though, so I watched the first season. 10th and 11th are SO much better.

Here is the Netflix link. After the 4th season, watch The End of Time, otherwise you'll be really confused.

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Author Topic: Dr. Who: The Impossible Astronaut *Spoilers* (Read 20362 times)

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Author Topic: Dr. Who: The Impossible Astronaut Spoilers (Read 20362 times)