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My wife and I had heard all the hype about TDK and watched it one time. Still in shock, we watched it a second time to see if there was something we had missed. After the second time we threw it in the trash. Just speaking an opinion here, but if sadism is "art" now, then I don't want any part of it (like most of what the NEA now calls "art"). I get that the movie explored dark themes, and I think the Joker played his role very well. But we just felt "gloomy" after the movie, and we don't see the point of spending our time to feel that way. I especially don't like how our "hero" encourages the police commisioner to perpetuate a lie, no matter how "heroic" of him it was.
I can back up my opinion that The Dark Knight is a more artful film with multiple examples of how the film executes it's ideas and conveys its messages masterfully. I can also back up my opinion with the fact that the film critics who studied this and do this for a living agree with me in a pretty large majority. "Amateur film critic" is something of a hobby of mine, and I'm able to further back my position by simply having a very large amount of exposure to film and literature over the last four years. I can laugh at the notion that The Avengers is "a masterfully woven tale" because I cannot count the number of plots that I've been exposed to that were far superior to The Avengers using all my digits. If "amateur film critic" isn't good enough, then I simply point to the people who have hundreds of times more exposure than I do.
Yes, but those same types of critics say that a cross soaking in urine is "artistic" too, don't they? What is "artful" or "artistic" is already subjective, depending on who you ask. If we can agree on this, then we can certainly agree that what is MORE artistic than something else is also "in the eyes of the beholder".
Why not just say "I liked this movie better than this movie" and leave it at that? I don't know why we have to argue over which is more "artistic".
This thread is silly. Objective definitions of artistic value are useless. Someone could try to explain for hours why a Picasso painting is artistically better than my 8 year-old niece's drawing, but I still have a perfectly legitimate and arguable position that the drawing is artistically better. Why? Because all art is purely subjective. One can present arguments why TDK is a better movie, but stating as an objective fact that it is more artistic is silly. And that is a fact.
Found your horse man.
Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2012, 10:42:28 AMThis thread is silly. Objective definitions of artistic value are useless. Someone could try to explain for hours why a Picasso painting is artistically better than my 8 year-old niece's drawing, but I still have a perfectly legitimate and arguable position that the drawing is artistically better. Why? Because all art is purely subjective. One can present arguments why TDK is a better movie, but stating as an objective fact that it is more artistic is silly. And that is a fact.I give this post 5 stars out of 5. And I'm a very experienced and objective post reader and critic.
In my opinion, what makes a film more artistic than another is the types of ideas it presents and how it presents them. It's a little more straightforward than "traditional" art, and it's much, much easier to convey those ideas and the emotion behind them in a film.
Quote from: Chris on May 07, 2012, 12:35:45 PMIn my opinion, what makes a film more artistic than another is the types of ideas it presents and how it presents them. It's a little more straightforward than "traditional" art, and it's much, much easier to convey those ideas and the emotion behind them in a film. Thus my point. Earlier in the thread, there was a lot of "inarguable" and "no legitimate argument"-type language being thrown around. My point was that everything that can be defined as artistic is arguable, and there can be legitimate arguments for the artistic value of anything based on someone's opinion.
Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2012, 02:26:40 PMQuote from: Chris on May 07, 2012, 12:35:45 PMIn my opinion, what makes a film more artistic than another is the types of ideas it presents and how it presents them. It's a little more straightforward than "traditional" art, and it's much, much easier to convey those ideas and the emotion behind them in a film. Thus my point. Earlier in the thread, there was a lot of "inarguable" and "no legitimate argument"-type language being thrown around. My point was that everything that can be defined as artistic is arguable, and there can be legitimate arguments for the artistic value of anything based on someone's opinion."Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong."
Like did any of you see the Infinity Gauntlet in Thor?
I personally don't watch movies to be entertained, (I play flash games for that ) I watch them to be intellectually stimulated, to engross myself in the film, and to contemplate what ideas the film is trying to convey. I would consider that a far more 'artistic' goal than just being entertained. If you don't think that my goal is artistic then well, to each his own, but if you do think that movies should be watched for more than just entertainment, I think that my argument of TDK > Avengers makes more sense.