Author Topic: Avatar: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers Abound) (Read 14443 times)

Warrior_Monk · « **on:** May 15, 2012, 04:00:45 PM »

Anybody else a fan? I loved The Last Airbender, but Korra is definitely better IMO. Amon is pretty much the perfect villain because, well, he's not a villain. They've done a good job at making it significantly different than Aang's tale, while still being true to the history. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite shows, if not my favorite.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** May 15, 2012, 04:03:36 PM »

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure as anything going to!

Drrek · « **Reply #2 on:** May 15, 2012, 04:28:27 PM »

I was actually thinking today about making a thread about this show. Both it and the original Avatar are great (although I kinda hated the ending of TLA). I disagree with the idea that Amon is not a villain (and I've heard people say that a lot when discussing him). I agree with a lot of the ideas that the Equalists are for, but the methods Amon uses are very wrong.

Red · « **Reply #3 on:** May 15, 2012, 05:44:07 PM »

TLA was better in my opinion because it wasn't as rushed story wise. And yes Amon has to be a villain due the methods he uses and the fact the benders were born different, why persercute them for the power they were born with? If you have power use it....

Drrek · « **Reply #4 on:** May 15, 2012, 05:49:48 PM »

Quote from: Red on May 15, 2012, 05:44:07 PM

TLA was better in my opinion because it wasn't as rushed story wise. And yes Amon has to be a villain due the methods he uses and the fact the benders were born different, why persercute them for the power they were born with? If you have power use it....

Well they only have about half the episodes for both seasons of Korra that they had for all of TLA, so they kind of have to rush it. And yeah, the only real problem I have with Amon so far (although he's got to be up to something really sinister that we haven't seen yet), is the method he uses. His ideas that benders oppress non-benders are true, at least to a point. Benders get jobs making lightning at the factory, the police are benders, a professional sport is exclusively for benders, and non-benders don't get representation on the Council, so opportunities are clearly available to benders that are not to non-benders. The problem is the way he goes about trying to change this.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2012, 02:58:23 PM »

Quote from: Drrek on May 15, 2012, 04:28:27 PM

I was actually thinking today about making a thread about this show. Both it and the original Avatar are great (although I kinda hated the ending of TLA). I disagree with the idea that Amon is not a villain (and I've heard people say that a lot when discussing him). I agree with a lot of the ideas that the Equalists are for, but the methods Amon uses are very wrong.

Because people are totally going to give up what makes them superior. Korra's logic in the first episode pretty much sums it up: "Give up bending...? Bending is the coolest thing in the world!" Nobody's going to willfully do it because they like their superiority. Thus in order to achieve equality, force must be used. End justifies the means.

Also, I actually really liked the ending of TLA, for the most part. I thought it had enough action to make it entertaining, but in the end didn't betray Aang's character.

Quote from: Red on May 15, 2012, 05:44:07 PM

TLA was better in my opinion because it wasn't as rushed story wise. And yes Amon has to be a villain due the methods he uses and the fact the benders were born different, why persercute them for the power they were born with? If you have power use it....

It's not persecution. It's equality.

Also, I don't really feel like LoK is being rushed. Aang's needed a lot more introduction than Korra's due to setting the basic world. There were also a lot of fillers (though all the episodes had important things in it).

Drrek · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2012, 03:24:12 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 16, 2012, 02:58:23 PM

Because people are totally going to give up what makes them superior. Korra's logic in the first episode pretty much sums it up: "Give up bending...? Bending is the coolest thing in the world!" Nobody's going to willfully do it because they like their superiority. Thus in order to achieve equality, force must be used. End justifies the means.

Posting my counter-argument in Spoiler tags because it is spoileriffic

Spoiler (hover to show)

Why should they have to give up bending to enforce equality? Representation on the Council, Government run Chi-Blocking lessons being made available for non-benders in order to allow them to defend themselves against people like the Triple-Threat Triads, and the opening of better economic opportunities for non-benders (since benders get some jobs like lightning generation solely on their ability to bend) would allow for equality without unnecessarily taking away something that is useful for the whole society. People like Sokka and Ty Lee showed in TLA that a properly talented and trained non-bender could be on equal-footing even with bending masters. (I mean Ty Lee took out Katara, who was a waterbending master with chi-blocking, Sokka's leadership ability is what allowed them to stop the Firenation Airship fleet and get as far as they did in the invasion).

Bending can be used to generate power, to construct buildings more quickly, and all around help society as a whole. Yes, some benders do abuse their abilities to persecute non-benders, and I could be for those people losing their bending (in fact the TLA was for this too, as it portrayed Aang heroically for taking Ozai's bending, and I'd be all in support of Amon if the only people whose bending he was removing was Lightning Bolt Zolt and other criminals), but others are only trying to help, and to remove a talent they have been born with just because you're jealous that you don't have it is wrong.

Amon's methods he uses to get his point across are also very wrong, he kidnaps people (admittedly they were mostly criminals, so I suppose one could justify his actions there), assaults the police, destroys multiple police Airships, and blows up the pro-bending arena. Doing this is NOT an acceptable way to try to get his point across, and frankly, Amon is a terrorist.

Amon's ideals are sympathetic, but his methods are reprehensible. He's a sympathetic villain, but a villain none the less.

For the record, Korra's actions with the protester (dismissing his gripes because "bending is the coolest thing ever" and breaking his megaphone), were also wrong.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 16, 2012, 02:58:23 PM

There were also a lot of fillers (though all the episodes had important things in it).

You take that back, you take that back right now sir. Outside of "The Great Divide," "The Painted Lady," "Nightmares and Daydreams," and "The Ember Island Players" (which honestly should get a free pass since its so HILARIOUS), there were NO filler episodes, which is pretty impressive for a 60 episode show. Yes some episodes weren't as important as others, (such as "The Beach") but every one of them either, outside of those I mentioned earlier, are either important in character development or advancing the plot, and thus, not filler.

Red · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2012, 03:32:46 PM »

TLA had amazing filler for the record. "The Painted Lady" was an amazing episode.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2012, 04:24:36 PM »

My post was too long, so I deleted the quote.

Spoiler (hover to show)

As I said, a lot of them had important things in them, but the episodes themselves were not about the overall plot. Many of those introduced characters that would be later used though, such as Jet and Suki. I enjoyed them immensely, but it made the show move rather slowly. That said I watched season 3 in 2 days.

You probably won't consider that filler, but that's what I was referring to. As mentioned, it made the show as a whole move rather slowly, though still very enjoyable.

Drrek · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:12:12 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 16, 2012, 04:24:36 PM

My post was too long, so I deleted the quote.

Spoiler (hover to show)
Amon himself is proof enough that non-benders can go toe-to-toe with benders (since benders put too much faith in their bending...a true master could take out Amon, but Amon is the best of the best right now). I agree with you on this point. A non-bender can never truly be able to attain superiority though, since a bender could easily go through the classes as well and become just as good a chi-blocker as a non-bender, plus have bending.

You also never addressed how much easier it is for a bender to get a job than a non-bender. Anybody can do what a non-bender can do (plus have the utility of bending), but only benders can bend. Non-benders will always be at a distinct disadvantage.

Anybody can use bending for evil. Even Korra, when angered (which is pretty easy to do), will use bending maliciously. There's no way to ensure it won't be used as a source for terrible evil. An Ozai lying in waiting until he can flee Republic City, taking with him many frustrated benders, starting a rebel group, and conquering the world. The only way is to remove bending.

The police are standing in the way of equality, in the name of justice. In actuality, they're doing the opposite of their job by opposing Amon, for only he will bring true justice and equality. The bending arena needed to be blown up because it was an alter for worshipping benders, and that's just not okay. He tried to get them to shut it down, but they wouldn't, so he blew it up.

On a completely unrelated note, I believe Tarlock is on Amon's side, though probably not by choice.

As I said, a lot of them had important things in them, but the episodes themselves were not about the overall plot. Many of those introduced characters that would be later used though, such as Jet and Suki. I enjoyed them immensely, but it made the show move rather slowly. That said I watched season 3 in 2 days.

You probably won't consider that filler, but that's what I was referring to. As mentioned, it made the show as a whole move rather slowly, though still very enjoyable.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Oh I agree that benders do have it better off than non-benders in finding jobs, but these jobs help EVERYONE, not just benders, and removing a useful part of society just because some people are jealous of those who can bend is foolish. I agree that some equality needs to be brought, as I've said before, the non-benders need representation on the council, and need to be giving the opportunity to learn skills like chi-blocking to defend themselves against benders.

Removing all bending just because some might abuse it BEFORE they abuse it is unwise. If someone abuses it, then remove it. A person who is skilled at computers should not be forced to never use a computer just because they might use their skills to steal from others, but if they do this THEN they should have their ability to utilize their talents removed.

I'm not unsympathetic to non-benders, I know I'd be sad if I lived in a world with bending and didn't have any, but punishing those who have it when they didn't A, choose to have it while others didn't, and B haven't done anything really wrong with it (yes Korra has been a irresponsible with her bending before, but not in a way that was so bad that it should constitute removing her bending). Someone like Lightning Bolt Zolt did deserve to lose their bending, but others can help everyone with bending.

Also saying the arena was "an alter for worshiping benders" is like saying a football stadium is "an alter for worshiping those who are physically talented." Those people didn't choose to be talented in a way others are not, and they are simply utilizing what talents they have. Non-benders like Sato or the Mechanist used their talents in ingenuity that most benders don't have, so should we remove their intelligence because "its unfair that others don't have it?" Of course not, Everyone's got something they can do and to remove peoples natural talents that can be used to help everyone is unwise. I wish that I was as talented as my friend in Math, but that doesn't mean that I want him to lose his talents to put us at an even level. And don't say "well you can just work hard and be as good as him," because that's not the way talent works. I can try as hard as I can, but someone who is both talented and does the same thing will always be better than me at it. That doesn't mean they should be punished for being better.

Like I said, Amon's goals are sympathetic, but entirely flawed.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:28:17 PM »

On a somewhat related note, are they ever going to produce the second live-action movie in the trilogy, or is that project dead now?

Drrek · « **Reply #11 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:33:19 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on May 16, 2012, 09:28:17 PM

On a somewhat related note, are they ever going to produce the second live-action movie in the trilogy, or is that project dead now?

Oh dear goodness it better be dead. We don't need them to ruin the best of the seasons.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:42:01 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on May 16, 2012, 09:28:17 PM

On a somewhat related note, are they ever going to produce the second live-action movie in the trilogy, or is that project dead now?

Doubtful. I won't mind if they get a new director (if that was indeed the problem). The movie was rushed and the special effects were lacking for how much choreography was done. I hated the first one.

Quote from: Drrek on May 16, 2012, 09:12:12 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)
Oh I agree that benders do have it better off than non-benders in finding jobs, but these jobs help EVERYONE, not just benders, and removing a useful part of society just because some people are jealous of those who can bend is foolish. I agree that some equality needs to be brought, as I've said before, the non-benders need representation on the council, and need to be giving the opportunity to learn skills like chi-blocking to defend themselves against benders.

Removing all bending just because some might abuse it BEFORE they abuse it is unwise. If someone abuses it, then remove it. A person who is skilled at computers should not be forced to never use a computer just because they might use their skills to steal from others, but if they do this THEN they should have their ability to utilize their talents removed.

I'm not unsympathetic to non-benders, I know I'd be sad if I lived in a world with bending and didn't have any, but punishing those who have it when they didn't A, choose to have it while others didn't, and B haven't done anything really wrong with it (yes Korra has been a irresponsible with her bending before, but not in a way that was so bad that it should constitute removing her bending). Someone like Lightning Bolt Zolt did deserve to lose their bending, but others can help everyone with bending.
Like I said, Amon's goals are
Also saying the arena was "an alter for worshiping benders" is like saying a football stadium is "an alter for worshiping those who are physically talented." Those people didn't choose to be talented in a way others are not, and they are simply utilizing what talents they have. Non-benders like Sato or the Mechanist used their talents in ingenuity that most benders don't have, so should we remove their intelligence because "its unfair that others don't have it?" Of course not, Everyone's got something they can do and to remove peoples natural talents that can be used to help everyone is unwise. I wish that I was as talented as my friend in Math, but that doesn't mean that I want him to lose his talents to put us at an even level. And don't say "well you can just work hard and be as good as him," because that's not the way talent works. I can try as hard as I can, but someone who is both talented and does the same thing will always be better than me at it. That doesn't mean they should be punished for being better.

sympathetic, but entirely flawed.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Drrek · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:30:07 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 16, 2012, 09:42:01 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)
But as Amon said, technology has advanced to the point where benders really aren't needed. Efforts would be better focused moving forward in science than staying with the primitive bending for everything.

So we should give nuclear knowledge to every nation and if they screw up then we take action. That's not a good idea. The extremities of bending is much more than you let on.

Random note: Is it weird that while I type this I'm hearing Amon's voice?

It's not a punishment. It's equality. Should somebody consider it a punishment from the spirit world if they're a non-bender? Neither should they consider being equalized as a punishment.

'nother random note: I'm sad that I don't have bending powers and I live in a world without it...

The difference is everybody has some form of intelligence, but of varying degrees. Not everybody can bend.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:40:16 PM »

Main point here is Amon isn't totally crazy, which I know you said from the beginning. He's a brilliant bad guy, any way you look at it, but I agree that he IS a bad guy, but more like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Well, a carnivore sheep.

Drrek · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:41:28 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 16, 2012, 10:40:16 PM

Main point here is Amon isn't totally crazy, which I know you said from the beginning. He's a brilliant bad guy, any way you look at it, but I agree that he IS a bad guy, but more like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Well, a carnivore sheep.

Oh no, I agree, he has ideals that make sense, and he's clearly brilliant. (although I think he is hiding something, I don't think his motives are pure)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:55:25 PM »

Spoiler (hover to show)

Drrek · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2012, 11:06:18 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 16, 2012, 10:55:25 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)
Couple of things.

I heard a pretty good theory that the owl from the library is who taught Amon how to steal bending powers. I've also thought of the face stealer (since Amon always wears a mask...technology gave him eyes?), but the owl seems pretty likely.

Also, does Asami rub anybody else wrong? I don't know why, but it seems like she's going to be bad in the end.

Also, I don't like Tarlock and I think Amon's got him in the palm of his hand.

Any ideas on Zuko's mother yet, and whether she'll play into this at all? Amon is Zuko's long lost and really young nephew? Now I'm just throwing things out. Amon has a lot of mystery about him, and so does Zuko's mom, so I'm curious to know if they tie together at all.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2012, 11:31:09 PM »

Jokes.avi

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm enjoying this discussion thoroughly. It's such a great show...

Drrek · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2012, 11:40:10 PM »

Spoiler (hover to show)

I was linked to that Amon joke thing before, pretty funny stuff.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2012, 02:48:19 PM »

Considering this is about a very new show, pretty much everything is going to be spoilers. You don't need to put anything in spoiler tags.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2012, 06:11:14 PM »

So it looks like what I thought earlier was true. Amon was getting his technology from Satos. But I liked the Cabbage Corp theory too much.

Asami is Amon? She didn't move like him, but that'd be an interesting twist. I'm grasping at straws at this point.

So it's pretty obvious that a spirit is behind the equalists. Which spirits do we know of? Koh (face stealer dude), Uwe (Sokka's xgf), the owl in the library, the panda, the monkey, and some other ones I'm probably missing. Koh is the most obvious of ones, but I don't see why it'd be him, considering he seems so apathetic about everything. Uwe (I really should look up how to spell her name) would be interesting. Sokka's now dead, and firebenders robbed her of a normal life. The owl makes the most sense IMO. Hates war, not a fan of benders, practically all knowing (he even had a book about Lion Turtles, the first energy benders...so if anybody could teach Amon, it'd be him). Aang himself could be behind it, but that'd be pretty weird.

Tarlock is definitely working with Amon.

Red · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2012, 09:13:18 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 21, 2012, 06:11:14 PM

So it looks like what I thought earlier was true. Amon was getting his technology from Satos. But I liked the Cabbage Corp theory too much.

Asami is Amon? She didn't move like him, but that'd be an interesting twist. I'm grasping at straws at this point.

So it's pretty obvious that a spirit is behind the equalists. Which spirits do we know of? Koh (face stealer dude), Uwe (Sokka's xgf), the owl in the library, the panda, the monkey, and some other ones I'm probably missing. Koh is the most obvious of ones, but I don't see why it'd be him, considering he seems so apathetic about everything. Uwe (I really should look up how to spell her name) would be interesting. Sokka's now dead, and firebenders robbed her of a normal life. The owl makes the most sense IMO. Hates war, not a fan of benders, practically all knowing (he even had a book about Lion Turtles, the first energy benders...so if anybody could teach Amon, it'd be him). Aang himself could be behind it, but that'd be pretty weird.

Tarlock is definitely working with Amon.

Who's saying Tarlock couldn't be Amon?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2012, 09:59:28 PM »

I've heard the theory that Tarlock is Amon, but that doesn't quite make sense.

First off, why did a messenger come and tell Amon what the council decided (while Amon was at Satos Industries...or at the docks...)? Secondly, why Tarlock? Amon could easily be holding his family in jeopardy, but why would Tarlock want to take bending away? Tarlock also doesn't seem like the Amon physique. Amon moves like an airbender or firebender, not a waterbender.

Red · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2012, 10:13:35 PM »

I'm not sure. I'm only a casual fan. I'm wondering if Amon is a bender or not... Tarlock seems fishy as did Sato.... BTW what's everyone's fave characters so far? I'm def callling tienzien.

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Author Topic: Avatar: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers Abound) (Read 14443 times)

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