Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I realized that in my 13 casual decks I have NEVER used Saul/Paul.  He just didn't really "fit".  How could I design an offense around Saul/Paul and Zebulun and Storehouse? 

I suppose Zebulun might be a nice backup if someone gets rid of Saul/Paul, but I've never seen anyone use both of these guys in a deck. You would have to include one or more unlimited length set-asides to keep Paul out of the way for Zebulun if you used him though, since Paul is NT and can't go in the popular Kerith Ravine.

How do you "beef up" Saul/Paul again, once he is converted?

Built on the Rock is the most popular option, which protects him from Capture, Conversion, and Removal from the game after a set-aside of three turns (during which time you could attack with Zebulun if you were so inclined).

How does the beefed up Paul deal with "return to hand/deck" and Grapes of Wrath?  What do you use to first locate and then convert Saul/Paul more quickly?

Return to hand/deck cards need to be interrupted. Anything from Reach + AoC to Zeal for the Lord can help with this purpose. If an opponent plays Grapes on you when Paul is in battle, there's nothing that can be done for him to remain beefed up. You'd have to reconvert him, recur BotR, and set him aside again...so basically it won't work. Chances are, though, if you wait until endgame for this manuever and your opponent didn't realize your deck type, he or she will already have used Grapes offensively. But it's not a sure thing.

Would Greeks + Abom (also neither of which I have ever used - eager to try) + Phillistines be a good holdout defense to use in a 50 card Saul/Paul + Zebulun casual deck?

Thanks for any ideas you can offer.

Philistines and Abom combined is the ultimate hold out defense, but that's really only if you have a way to make them draw every turn (using either Hur, Joiada son of Eliashib+Feast of Trumpets, or the Gold heroes that make everyone draw). So I would say that Abom would have a hard time fitting into a deck with just Zeb and Paul for offense. Philistine sitelock is still good though, and is one of the easiest defenses to set up.

Chances are, though, if you wait until endgame for this manuever and your opponent didn't realize your deck type, he or she will already have used Grapes offensively.

I saw you slip that in there. You're already submitting to the influence. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

In a casual deck, with 4-5 dominants instead of 10, I probably would have 25-30 cards for defense, and still have the deck at 50 cards.  I think I'll try it and see how it does.

I just thought of another problem.  What does heroless do if opponent uses Darius' Decree while he is set aside with Built on the Rock?  I assume you can Brass Serpent him, but he doesn't go back to being set aside when that happens does he?

I just thought of another problem.  What does heroless do if opponent uses Darius' Decree while he is set aside with Built on the Rock?  I assume you can Brass Serpent him, but he doesn't go back to being set aside when that happens does he?

You can use Miraculous Handkerchiefs and Lampstand in a temple/tabernacle to protect him while he is set-aside. The only way they can get to him then is to either

a) Cause a side battle and play something to negate an artifact.
b) Use Captured Ark, then DoN if you shuffle Lampstand, then DD their next turn.
c) Convert their own Emperor Augustus to a hero and attack with him.
d) A New Beginning

None of these are going to happen terribly often, but even so, you may want to include Blue Tassels just in case BotR doesn't work. Conversion and removal from the game can almost always be interrupted during battle, but CBN capture, Unholy Writ, and Go into Captivity are far more common ways to get rid of an unprotected Paul.

Not when you have to write things for liberal-minded professors at a public university. I suppose it's just a habit that I've acquired over the past few years, submitting to the influence as BB would say I guess.

As far as converting Saul/Paul, is the best way Holy Grail?

To be honest, that and I am Patience are the ONLY ways I've ever seen him converted in a tournament (non-booster draft) deck.

Another concern I had is considering the timing of everything.  Let's say I want to get Holy Grail, Saul/Paul, and Built on the Rock in hand all at the same time.  If my opponent perceives that this is my strategy, and saves Angel of the Lord for just the right moment, can't they AOL Saul before the rest happens?

Yes. That's why Healing of Namaan is a good idea.

In other words, I can't place and activate Holy Grail and Saul and Built on the Rock all simultaneously without a chance for dominants to be played, can I?

Correct.

Another option for helping keep Saul safe (as an EC before you can convert him) is to use High Priests Palace which protects him. Since you can also activate an Unholy Writ on it, it also has a great secondary effect.

Thanks.  I did think of this today, and will be posting a deck idea soon that uses both of these cards.