Author Topic: Heroless  (Read 2318 times)

Offline jtay

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Heroless
« on: August 02, 2009, 01:24:43 AM »
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By now most people have probably at least heard of heroless.  The concept is to convert one of your own Evil Characters to act as a kind of super-hero (usually Saul/Paul as I understand it).  Anyways, I read the "turtle" portion of this article a while ago, and I would love to apply it to Redemption, since defense is my favorite part of the game.

The goal of this form of heroless (which I doubt I'm the first to consider) would be to take out your opponent's Son of God (and Angel of the Lord if possible), completely lock out their offense, and win 2-0 with your own SoG/NJ by timing out.  Any thoughts on this?
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Offline seeker

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 01:34:08 AM »
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Interesting thought.... the only problem would be discarding your opponent's son of God before they can activate it and getting rid of angel of the lord or always using some form of angel of the lord stopping cards such as two thousand horses or Uzzah. These are easy enough goals for certain but you may want to try running a saul paul or holy grail or some  convert card and a few enhancements. Great deck idea though.
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Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 01:49:27 AM »
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If it wasn't for differential, this would be a good deck idea.
αθαvαTOι θvηTOι θvηTOι αθαvαTOι ζwvTεs TOv εKειvwv θαvαTov Tov δε εKεivwv βιOv TεθvεwTεs -Heraclitus

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2009, 02:03:57 AM »
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Well there is no way that you could be assured of taking your opponent's SoG out. A well built defense won't necessarily need to take out AotL either, there are plenty of ways around it.

If you could get Lampstand and Altar of Ahaz active fairly quickly, then use a Sadducee defense, getting rid of Son of God is as simple as High Priest's Plot. Your opponent essentially has to get both SoG/NJ and realize what you are trying to do in order to counter the strategy. Once you get rid of SoG, you can deactivate Altar and play your own. The nice thing about Sadducees is that you can band two of them together and still have decent initiative. Throw in a Judas for some unnegatability, and he is also very helpful in making AotL less effective. Other pros to using Sadducees are as follows:

-Three High Priests with which you can use Urim and Thummin (which helps to ensure they have SoG)
-They're Black, which when played right, can be one of the most effective colors for shutting down offenses.
-Searchability (Caiaphas) and Recurrability (Doctrine Like Leaven)
-High Priest's Palace is a protection fort that doubles as a host for two very nice defensive arts.

My Heroless that did well in tournaments was a Black/Crimson mix, based on all these ideas (except DLL, which wasn't around yet). Some other helpful hints:

Unknown Nation is a must for this strategy. It's more than likely that your opponent will be able to use at least one battle winner (possibly AotL). If UN is active, you can search for someone who either gets initiative, or is unaffected by whatever else they might have. (if you're going against Widow, 9 times out of 10 their battle winner is AocP. Search for Judas, and presto! They lose. You probably won't even have to play an enhancement, unless they use Reach)

The difficult thing with Heroless is you have to be prepared for just about anything. Fortunately, you have a massive defense. The nice thing with your idea is that you won't have to worry about keeping your good enhancements or Saul/Paul safe, so you can have even more defense ready.

Interesting story: the one time I lost in a tournament with my Heroless was once when someone activated Lampstand and Altar of Dagon, attacked me once early on, and won 3-2. He literally built the deck just for me. I was honored and appalled all at the same time.

Anyway, hope that helped. Good luck!

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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2009, 10:38:36 AM »
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The deck you are describing is offenseless. Ask Mike Hue, he used it in the Ohio nationals.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 11:05:33 AM »
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The deck you are describing is offenseless. Ask Mike Hue, he used it in the Ohio nationals.

Considering that SoG/NJ provide 40% of a person's offense in most games, I wouldn't call any deck with those two offenseless. Just sayin'.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 09:52:20 PM »
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The deck you are describing is offenseless. Ask Mike Hue, he used it in the Ohio nationals.

Considering that SoG/NJ provide 40% of a person's offense in most games, I wouldn't call any deck with those two offenseless. Just sayin'.
I agree, it'd be fun to do a deck without sog nj with altar of ahaz to go for the tie.
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2009, 10:10:36 PM »
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But you could never place place with this. You'd always get 2 points, instead of 3. It is a cool idea though. What I do is make a 100 card deck with a solid brigade color (black or pale green). Then, you have two double souls to give while still keeping up your altar of ahaz. But once again, timeout won't win you tournaments.
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Heroless
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2009, 10:12:00 PM »
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But you could never place place with this. You'd always get 2 points, instead of 3. It is a cool idea though. What I do is make a 100 card deck with a solid brigade color (black or pale green). Then, you have two double souls to give while still keeping up your altar of ahaz. But once again, timeout won't win you tournaments.

But it makes other people lose tournaments, I.E. if you happen to play last years champion... he won't be champion for long  :P

 


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