Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I think that makes this the complete ability:
"If making a rescue attempt, remove this card from the game to shuffle all cards in play, set aside areas, and hands into decks.  All players draw 8.  Begin a new turn whilst STAMP and EmJayBee weep."
 

Fixed.

RDT - thanks for trusting me with the combo.

Andy - I'm sorry that playing against this deck drove you to quit Redemption for the 37th time.  I hope now that it's been errata'd away you'll be back soon.

To everyone else who faced the T1 deck - thanks for being good sports about it.  It was really fun to try to pull it off but pretty boring once I did.

The combo isn't broken because it's so easy to pull off or so hard to stop.  Neither of those things are true.  It's very hard to play correctly.  Of the three games I lost (RDT, Cam, Tracer) two of them were because I played poorly and made mistakes.  As MKC has pointed out there are a number of counters available if you know what's coming.

What's broken and called for errata is that a person can take turn after turn after turn with no interaction from their opponent.  That goes directly against the spirit of Redemption - Fun and Fellowship!

I think that makes this the complete ability:
"If making a rescue attempt, remove this card from the game to shuffle all cards in play, set aside areas, and hands into decks.  All players draw 8.  Begin a new turn and watch grown men cry."

Broken.

Oh... cool you thought of an awesome combo? Well, no you didn't cause we just changed the card. I mean... seriously?

It could be worse, l'Ninja. The PTB could have taken the lazy man's way out and changed the underlying game mechanics--like they did by instituting hand limits--rather than just errating a card.

Yep, you're the final versions one loss Justin. I didn't realize that you'd subbed in those counters though Tricky, tricky.

Yeah, I survived his DD's just fine, it was the Mayhem which killed me, I had a shot at Confusioning it, but picked CM instead.

Andy - I'm sorry that playing against this deck drove you to quit Redemption for the 37th time.  I hope now that it's been errata'd away you'll be back soon.

Total wyn!

and for those who think that using gabe to get rid of ANB wont work...You are partlly correct.  The real key is Sticking it in the d/c pile and then playing burning up the chaff on gabe right behind it 

and there are only about ..oh... a gazillion ways to do that (confusion/wonders forgotten)

You can go after the LS's and remove them from the game, you can remove Elishanna from the game  you can remove their I am healing or Brass Serpent from the game... if you get any of these cards removed from the game then the combo falls like a house of cards....oh well, too bad no one can build a defense to this deck now....

Huh, last time I checked I never had any of those problems....... But what do I know, I only built the deck......

Yeah, but how long did you play it?  IF you played it alot against several different people, then there would be a lot more creative defenses to foul up the deck but none of these will be tried now because the deck was already erratta-ed.

One of my favorites recenly is to use high places to throw multiple copied of broken cisterns into your teritory, that way as soon as you put your heros down they die.  With an offense like yours, you wouldn't be able to get the combo off the ground because I dont see any cards that would remove evil cards from your territory.

This is what I am saying.  I understand ANB was errattaed because the judges were sick and tired of dealing with it, but I just think that players should try to find their own way around a deck every now and then instead of just crying foul every time a deck pulls of a sick combo.

Seriously, if you were playing against your own deck, don't you know about a dozen ways you could undo this combo with several commonly used cards?

Yes, I know a dozen different ways, I also know that I can counter 3/4 of them, and outsmart another 3/16, its that last 1/16 that beats me every time, and actually believe it or not, I can counter those Cisterns. (It will slow me down though)

and see, there is the rub.  I am not saying that you cant beat the cisterns, or any other of the tricks, (although confusion in a sidebattle followed by Forgotten history is the ball game for that deck)  but the deal is that with some of these combos, Your deck could probably be beaten before it comboed off.  Plus, there is the fact that, I could still beat you even if you d/c my deck.  This deck takes a long time to d/c my deck.  If I even get 3-4 LS's before you combo off, then I will likely get a time out win.  That will be enough to make people rethink playing with this deck.

Like I said, the other deck that I am combatting uses multiple brigades and I use Broken Cisterns (and wasting diseases) to slow him down quite a bit by killing off bunches of his heros at a time.  I also try to throw up as many artifacts as I can (Lampstand + HSR + any other artifat to shuffle stalls this deck..and your ANB deck pretty much indefinitely)

True, that version of the deck usually only plays well against that particular deck, ( really who actuallly plays a deck that has Priestly breastplate, UW ( in HPP) and idol of Dagon? ( I think?) in Temple of Dagon?...a deck that has to worry about three copies of Captured ark, but after that, I'd be golden.

I'm just saying that this deck is probably more beatable than you think ( at least the type II version) because not many people have played it that I know of.  I am sure there are other stoppers that I cant think of that others would because they are more familiar with those combos.

I hope players realize that this was not about deck strength.  I would vote for errata on any card that could give a player a 45 minute turn, even if it could never do better than a timed-out loss.

The point was the lack-of-fun factor, and the sit-there-and-do-nothing factor.  The fact that, at the end of that 45 minute turn, I'd have a deck with zero cards in it and likely couldn't win was just a secondary consideration. 

I actually WANT a "deck-your-opponent" strategy to be viable at tournaments.  Just not all in one 45-minute turn. 

I actually WANT a "deck-your-opponent" strategy to be viable at tournaments.  Just not all in one 45-minute turn. 

Good, I'll get right on that for you Bryon.

In fact, I've already got one

Oh, and incidentally, this combo resulted from experimentation with an entirely different combo which is still doable, and may even see play later.

A card to stop this combo would have to be a crazy powerful dominant because the opponent never got a turn.  That isn't good for the game.  While I agree overall that balance is better than erratas, balancing with new cards has two big disadvantages.

1.  Are people going to have to dedicate like 7 card slots to include cards necessary to stop super OPd combos (kinda like we do with site access now)?  It isn't feasible.  I know this wouldn't be the case every time, but still, it is a valid point.

2.  If you only fix problems with releasing new cards, then problems can only be solved once a year.  That means, during Nats and the entire tournament season, these combos are not fixed.  That isn't a timely fix.


Again, I do support the ANB errata, but for the exact reasons Bryon has stated. 

That is how many decks win. Sheer absurdity. If you throw your opponent off guard, you gain a huge advantage.