Author Topic: Standalone defense - is there anything better than this? (Read 10368 times)

lightningninja · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:08:10 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:05:44 PM

Quote from: lightningninja on August 22, 2011, 11:00:28 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 20, 2011, 08:47:23 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on August 20, 2011, 08:44:45 PM
i count 6+ blocks. not too shabby.

Especially since people use chumpy offense like Red now
What are you going to do against the Centurion at Calvary, again? I think he negates every one of your plays.

Find someone playing with Cent at Calv and we'll talk.

Me, and I think any other smart player. What would you do?

Master KChief · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:09:27 PM »

dreaming pharoah, cupbearer, and wonders forgotten cant be negated. but the rest fbtn/cent's/john/james son of alph/etc will walk through.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #27 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:11:32 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on August 22, 2011, 11:09:27 PM

dreaming pharoah, cupbearer, and wonders forgotten cant be negated. but the rest fbtn/cent's/john/james son of alph/etc will walk through.

He's talking about the one in the OP, I imagine. Unfortunately, he has no idea what Nebby, his Pride, Banquet, or Belshazzar do.

lightningninja · « **Reply #28 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:18:11 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on August 22, 2011, 11:09:27 PM

dreaming pharoah, cupbearer, and wonders forgotten cant be negated. but the rest fbtn/cent's/john/james son of alph/etc will walk through.

I don't see any of those on the list...

EDIT: I just read Nebby, forgot he can't be negated, my bad. But Belshazzar still will.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:21:51 PM »

Don't you guys forget Covenant with Death. That'll breeze right through a lot of sucker blocks - and rescues.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #30 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:23:12 PM »

Not to mention Christian Martyr and Writ exist for a reason.

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 22, 2011, 11:21:51 PM

Don't you guys forget Covenant with Death. That'll breeze right through a lot of sucker blocks - and rescues.

As long as you don't mind losing your chumps too.

Master KChief · « **Reply #31 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:24:29 PM »

nebby still works too. im starting to like him more and more.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #32 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:25:03 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on August 22, 2011, 11:24:29 PM

nebby still works too. im starting to like him more and more.

Nebby is probably the best auto-block in the game.

lightningninja · « **Reply #33 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:25:46 PM »

Can this stand a chance against TGT?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #34 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:26:31 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on August 22, 2011, 11:25:46 PM

Can this stand a chance against TGT?

Yeah. It's offense wins faster.

lightningninja · « **Reply #35 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:27:08 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:26:31 PM

Quote from: lightningninja on August 22, 2011, 11:25:46 PM
Can this stand a chance against TGT?

Yeah. It's offense wins faster.

Ok, I guess I'll have to take your word on that.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #36 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:28:35 PM »

Well, I mean, it's pretty obvious this is to be paired with a fast offense. This isn't a whole game defense. But, it is one of the best combinations of 10 cards to maximize blocking potential while minimizing dependence on drawing more than one card at once.

lightningninja · « **Reply #37 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:30:04 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:28:35 PM

Well, I mean, it's pretty obvious this is to be paired with a fast offense. This isn't a whole game defense. But, it is one of the best combinations of 10 cards to maximize blocking potential while minimizing dependence on drawing more than one card at once.

I'd agree with that. But I feel like it could struggle against most of the new cards. Asahel and the Centurions for red, Covenant with Death, John for Disciples (and Thaddeus)... I just feel like this meta is moving away from character abilities.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #38 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:30:49 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:23:12 PM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 22, 2011, 11:21:51 PM
Don't you guys forget Covenant with Death. That'll breeze right through a lot of sucker blocks - and rescues.

As long as you don't mind losing your chumps too.

This card works awesome in my Judges/Canaanites deck. Almost all the Canaanites are CBP, and the Judges angels are CBN. Not to mention that one of the Judges angels makes all good Judges cards CBN, and that two of my judges either virtually or literally have no special abilities. Embrace the devastation.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #39 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:32:53 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on August 22, 2011, 11:30:04 PM

I'd agree with that. But I feel like it could struggle against most of the new cards. Asahel and the Centurions for red, Covenant with Death, John for Disciples (and Thaddeus)... I just feel like this meta is moving away from character abilities.

It's not. Character abilities are still the most efficient ways to win battles. There's no reason to shift away from them because cards counter them. Speed is still going strong because it's better than other stuff. So will Character abilities.

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 22, 2011, 11:30:49 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 22, 2011, 11:21:51 PM
Don't you guys forget Covenant with Death. That'll breeze right through a lot of sucker blocks - and rescues.

As long as you don't mind losing your chumps too.
This card works awesome in my Judges/Canaanites deck. Almost all the Canaanites are CBP, and the Judges angels are CBN. Not to mention that one of the Judges angels makes all good Judges cards CBN, and that two of my judges either virtually or literally have no special abilities. Embrace the devastation.

Call me dumb, but I just don't see that as winning combination on a whole meta scale. Maybe I am wrong, we'll see.

lightningninja · « **Reply #40 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:36:23 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:32:53 PM

Quote from: lightningninja on August 22, 2011, 11:30:04 PM
I'd agree with that. But I feel like it could struggle against most of the new cards. Asahel and the Centurions for red, Covenant with Death, John for Disciples (and Thaddeus)... I just feel like this meta is moving away from character abilities.

It's not. Character abilities are still the most efficient ways to win battles. There's no reason to shift away from them because cards counter them. Speed is still going strong because it's better than other stuff. So will Character abilities.

Define speed. Because I think the classic speed deck definitely is losing power. It hasn't won nationals in a long time, and now it isn't even winning multiplayer as often (thanks to Mayhem and Grapes of Wrath). So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. =)

But you could be right that negating character abilities will not be as popular as I think it will be. It's what my deck will be though, so I'm probably overestimating how many people will actually use it.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #41 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:39:19 PM »

Disciples are good because they fast.
TGT is good because it is fast.
Red/Purple is good because it is fast.
etc
etc

While classic speed might not be the thing, every good deck is fast. And there are certainly enough counters to drawing.

lightningninja · « **Reply #42 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:43:53 PM »

But Disciples are definitely not the fastest. I think they are good because they have thaddeus and lots of interrupt and negates and battle winners. Speed helps, but I don't think that is why they are good.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #43 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:45:53 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on August 22, 2011, 11:43:53 PM

But Disciples are definitely not the fastest. I think they are good because they have thaddeus and lots of interrupt and negates and battle winners. Speed helps, but I don't think that is why they are good.

That's just not true. Thaddeus is probably the 4th maybe even 5th best Disciple in T1. Disciples are good because they have access to the best enhancement in the game and numerous ways to draw. They have the best two hero combo in the game. They have a D3 hero. They have a enhancement CBN hero.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #44 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:46:55 PM »

I realize that I'm completely outnumbered by Hero Members but I still can't find the reason why everyone LOVES Goliath and why is he constantly considered an auto block?

His ability isn't a may, simply send out the hero you don't plan on using...

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #45 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:47:36 PM »

Quote from: Jmbeers on August 22, 2011, 11:46:55 PM

I realize that I'm completely outnumbered by Hero Members but I still can't find the reason why everyone LOVES Goliath and why is he constantly considered an outo block?

His ability isn't a may, simply send out the hero you don't plan on using...

And then I can use a different EC because you just used a crappy hero.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #46 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:51:54 PM »

Most people have multiple good Heros,

Do you really put "crappy" Heros in your deck?
If you do I see why Goliath is tuff for you.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #47 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:54:56 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:32:53 PM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 22, 2011, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2011, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 22, 2011, 11:21:51 PM
Don't you guys forget Covenant with Death. That'll breeze right through a lot of sucker blocks - and rescues.

As long as you don't mind losing your chumps too.
This card works awesome in my Judges/Canaanites deck. Almost all the Canaanites are CBP, and the Judges angels are CBN. Not to mention that one of the Judges angels makes all good Judges cards CBN, and that two of my judges either virtually or literally have no special abilities. Embrace the devastation.

Call me dumb, but I just don't see that as winning combination on a whole meta scale. Maybe I am wrong, we'll see.

You are probably right, but winning isn't my reason for playing. I play to have fun, and chump block defenses are not fun.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #48 on:** August 23, 2011, 12:02:06 AM »

I won't disagree with you, I'm just commenting for the perspective of the meta. The meta cares about what is good, not what is fun.

Quote from: Jmbeers on August 22, 2011, 11:51:54 PM

Most people have multiple good Heros,

Do you really put "crappy" Heros in your deck?
If you do I see why Goliath is tuff for you.

Most people have an obvious best hero. If you are any good, you can realize which hero this is. If they attack with this hero, you have the option of using Goliath. If they don't, you have the option of not using Goliath. Either way, it gives you come control over which hero RAs.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #49 on:** August 23, 2011, 12:08:27 AM »

I've just played against Goliath and never gone oh snap now what?

He's good yea. But this, "I have him in my deck now be afraid" mentality just dosen't add up for me.

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Author Topic: Standalone defense - is there anything better than this? (Read 10368 times)