Author Topic: Standalone angels? (Read 3303 times)

ArmedKevin117 · « **on:** March 19, 2012, 10:54:40 PM »

Michael+
Angel's Sword+
3 Nails+
Wheel within a Wheel+
The First Seal/Protection of Angels/Spiritual Warfare

Feedback?

Redoubter · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2012, 10:58:39 PM »

The problem is getting the good angels out of deck and into play...there is a crazy combo involving set-aside fortresses, but it also leaves you without a deck. And no enhancements can be a problem.

Really, they are just a support brigade. If there were more good ones, sure, but they seem dead-set against it.

ArmedKevin117 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:10:36 AM »

Maybe a little review:

Michael makes his enhancements cannot be negated.
If a human evil character blocks (ensured by 3 nails, which prevents demons from blocking), he gets special initiative (CBN) to play an enhancement, which is also CBN.
The First Seal, Protection of Angels, and Spiritual Warfare all render humans ineffective one way or another.
And just to cover all the bases, Wheel Within a Wheel renders him immune to dominants.

I'd say the bases are covered. Maybe a little Primary Objective in a pinch.

lp670sv · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:12:20 AM »

Altar of Ahaz would love this deck....

Smokey · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:26:04 AM »

Fortresses: 1
   Chamber of Angels

Green Sites: 1
   Nazareth

Artifacts: 3
   Hezekiah's Signet Ring
   Holy of Holies
   Household Idols

White Covenant Cards: 3
   Confusion of Mind (Pale Green)
   Covenant With Death (Brown/Pale Green)
   Rain Becomes Dust (Gray)

Silver Heroes: 8
   Angel at Jerusalem
   Angel of the Harvest
   Angel of Warning
   Atteding Angel
   Michael
   Servant Angel
   The Angel Under the Oak
   The Strong Angel

Silver Hero Enhancements: 6
   Angel's Sword
   Birth Foretold
   Flaming Sword
   Primary Objective
   Striking Herod
   Wheat and Tares

I went 6-2 or something with a deck that used this offense, most of your lost souls will come from shock factor / being able to shut down an opponents strategy early, but the longer the game lasts the more likely you are to lose.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:22:02 AM »

angels themselves can be anti-meta because most cards target humans making it difficult for players to use some of there best evil enhancements.

megamanlan · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:38:57 AM »

Yea, I use the combo u just mentioned commonly, (except for 3 Nails) I run Stand-alone Angels and it goes great for me, the only problem is their lack of speed. It would be great if they could go faster.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:59:29 AM »

Leviathan laughs at your puny attempts.

ArmedKevin117 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:05:59 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on March 20, 2012, 09:59:29 AM

Leviathan laughs at your puny attempts.

That's alright, I'll bring plenty of tartar sauce.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:13:28 PM »

The main problem with angels is they lack the necessary speed to be competitive, and they also lack the characters and enhancements to form a fully functional deck. Wheel Within a Wheel on Michael with Angel's Sword is a nice idea, but realistically, it's not going to be all that good, especially since you need to set it all up before it's effective, which requires drawing three (maybe four) cards (Wheel Within a Wheel, Michael (if drawn before WWW), Angel's Sword, and an enhancement to play off of Angel's Sword). It lets chump blocks like Uzzah pass without problems, and if your opponent blocks with King of Tyrus (a very common card) you suddenly become vulnerable to Christian Martyr and Grapes of Wrath. It's a nice idea in theory, but in practice, there are much better options.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:19:23 PM »

Not that I disagree...but how would WWW be negated if played with Michael? Isn't wheel within a wheel still an enhancement? Does this SA still not apply?

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 12 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Enhancements played with Michael cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Angel • Verse: Daniel 10:13 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:22:01 PM »

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on March 20, 2012, 12:19:23 PM

Not that I disagree...but how would WWW be negated if played with Michael? Isn't wheel within a wheel still an enhancement? Does this SA still not apply?

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 12 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Enhancements played with Michael cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Angel • Verse: Daniel 10:13 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Wheel Within a Wheel wasn't played by Michael, it was just played on Michael (or possibly just placed on Michael, and played on another hero entirely).

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:25:24 PM »

That's not what the SA says though, it says with, not on or by...If I come in with Angel's Sword played outside of battle as a weapon-class enhancement, it still can't be negated correct? If WWW is on Michael it should gain CBN status...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:27:21 PM »

There was a thread about this recently. "With" is old for "by" or "on" just as "repel" is old for "ignore."

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:29:14 PM »

Ok, so if I put WWW ON Michael, like I would plan on doing to avoid dominants, it still can't be negated...I'm missing the reasoning why it would be any different...

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:30:33 PM »

Quote

Played with

See also Played by.

Quote

Played by

Some cards in Redemption® make reference to a special ability being ‘played by’. The phrase ‘played by’ refers to cards played directly on the holder’s character(s) in battle. It does not refer to cards played by another player.

So no, unless they were played in battle, both Angel's Sword and Wheel Within a Wheel would be negatable.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:32:07 PM »

Because it's not played on Michael while his SA is active.

The only way to do it would be to play W3 on Michael in battle and put it on himself. Then it would have been CBN when played and therefore CBN always.

*EDIT* That's not true of Angel's Sword as weapons are played every time they enter battle.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:33:12 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on March 20, 2012, 12:32:07 PM

Because it's not played on Michael while his SA is active.

The only way to do it would be to play W3 on Michael in battle and put it on himself. Then it would have been CBN when played and therefore CBN always.

*EDIT* That's not true of Angel's Sword as weapons are played every time they enter battle.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:37:56 PM »

Ok, explain that one please...

I see an enhancement is physically played on a character outside of battle, which technically doesn't meet the bizarre definition of played by (which is another argument entirely)...yet if the enhancement is a weapon it cannot be negated...

Both times the ability of the card goes off in conjunction with the character's ability...so why is one considered played by in battle, and the other is not?

Edit: I think I get it...there were too many pronouns in the responses and I wasn't thinking that WWW would be active outside of battle whereas Angel's Sword would not. Thanks for the clarifier.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:45:34 PM »

I think the idea is that a WC-enh is "placed" in territory due to it's nature as WC. And a TC-enh is "played" in territory due to it's nature as a TC. The TC-enh would be "played by" Michael (assuming he is in territory and it was played on him). However, his SA would NOT be active at the time (in territory) so it would NOT be CBN.

Then when he went into battle, the WC-enh would be "played" when it entered battle, because WC-enh's SA activate when they enter battle. Michael's SA is active at that point, so the WC-enh would be CBN.

However, the TC-enh would NOT be "played" in battle, because TC-enhs do NOT re-activate again every time they entered battle. Therefore it would continue to NOT be CBN.

megamanlan · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:07:20 PM »

I agree.
Although, if u can hit Wheel in battle, its an excellent way to hit an OT Angel into Battle, CBN. (like Cap) its an excellent battle-Ender, sometimes...

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Author Topic: Standalone angels? (Read 3303 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy