Author Topic: Oh Tier me... (Read 7614 times)

Professoralstad · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2012, 10:39:58 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 19, 2012, 10:09:21 PM

I'm so glad that I haven't had to change my deck for 3 years I was going to have to do so, but then we instituted a rule that makes the deck viable again....

Except that deck gets rocked by Super Turtles.

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Wings of Music · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:37:52 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 19, 2012, 09:44:24 PM

Interesting. I agree that FBTNB is super strong with Sam, I just view it more as an FBTNB with a Sam splash (if it has that many FBTNB cards).

Whoever head of a Sam splash? If you want to use Sam you need at least a couple David's, Sam, AUTO, and some stuff to do banding with Sam. This adds up to quite a lot of cards, and turns the offense into a Sam offense becasue of it. My conclusion, if you go with a Sam splash (one that's any good) you've just turned your deck into a Sam deck.)

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 19, 2012, 09:44:24 PM

And we're talking about yesterday's FBTNB, but today. The retro Kings style using the cool cards like Asahel and Ishmaiah.

The thing is this, without Sam FBTNB would barely be viable. I think that straight up FBTNB of 'the old days' isn't fast enough to hold up to Sam. Sam with FBTNB is one of the best decks, if not the best deck out there, but without Sam FBTNB loses all strength. So that's why I advocate keeping straight up FBTNB in the lower tiers.

cardsofmanykinds · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:58:38 PM »

just saying "yesterday," i rocked with just abishai+adino and their spears,and FBTNB is still tier A

SomeKittens · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:04:07 PM »

Quote from: cardsofmanykinds on March 20, 2012, 01:58:38 PM

just saying "yesterday," i rocked with just abishai+adino and their spears,and FBTNB is still tier A

Against what deck?

Korunks · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:24:07 PM »

What is this water garden I keep hearing about? I am unfamiliar with the term.

Red Wing · « **Reply #30 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:25:59 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 20, 2012, 02:24:07 PM

What is this water garden I keep hearing about? I am unfamiliar with the term.

basically like the deck in this thread http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/complete-decks/the-water-garden-2011-version/

It combines TGT with Gold for purposes of Water Jar and Meeting the Messiah.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #31 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:41:39 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 20, 2012, 11:37:52 AM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 19, 2012, 09:44:24 PM
Interesting. I agree that FBTNB is super strong with Sam, I just view it more as an FBTNB with a Sam splash (if it has that many FBTNB cards).

Whoever head of a Sam splash? If you want to use Sam you need at least a couple David's, Sam, AUTO, and some stuff to do banding with Sam. This adds up to quite a lot of cards, and turns the offense into a Sam offense becasue of it. My conclusion, if you go with a Sam splash (one that's any good) you've just turned your deck into a Sam deck.)

This is essentially just a disagreement on definitions. I usually only use 2 cards for Sam to draw off of, but whatever.

Quote

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 19, 2012, 09:44:24 PM
And we're talking about yesterday's FBTNB, but today. The retro Kings style using the cool cards like Asahel and Ishmaiah.

The thing is this, without Sam FBTNB would barely be viable. I think that straight up FBTNB of 'the old days' isn't fast enough to hold up to Sam. Sam with FBTNB is one of the best decks, if not the best deck out there, but without Sam FBTNB loses all strength. So that's why I advocate keeping straight up FBTNB in the lower tiers.

And again, I disagree, but since I don't have RTS I'll just have to take the hit on this one. The only person really playing FBTNB this year is Martin Miller, so I feel it's a bit misjudged, but we'll let the big tournaments sort that out.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #32 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:45:07 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 20, 2012, 02:41:39 PM

And again, I disagree, but since I don't have RTS I'll just have to take the hit on this one. The only person really playing FBTNB this year is Martin Miller, so I feel it's a bit misjudged, but we'll let the big tournaments sort that out.

Well I don't have RTS either, apparently were just a couple of unqualified bums who have to wait till after the big tournaments to verify our opinions.

Master KChief · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:46:14 PM »

I don't see what benefits true FBTNB has over FBTNB with Sam splash.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:47:52 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 20, 2012, 02:46:14 PM

I don't see what benefits true FBTNB has over FBTNB with Sam splash.

Purist players don't spit on you.

Master KChief · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:50:26 PM »

Which prior to this season was me and Martin. Martin just needs to come to the Dark Side.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:02:37 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 20, 2012, 02:46:14 PM

I don't see what benefits true FBTNB has over FBTNB with Sam splash.

Primarily a better defense and more offensive options.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:03:42 PM »

I don't know about more offensive options, but I would definitely agree that it allows for a larger defense.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:03:55 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 20, 2012, 03:02:37 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on March 20, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
I don't see what benefits true FBTNB has over FBTNB with Sam splash.
Primarily a better defense and more offensive options.

More offensive options? Not a chance.

Master KChief · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:19:29 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 20, 2012, 03:02:37 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on March 20, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
I don't see what benefits true FBTNB has over FBTNB with Sam splash.
Primarily a better defense and more offensive options.

I used a splash of Teal for speed and power last year (and if I recall correctly, Martin as well). You're just exchanging the Teal splash for the Sam splash, which I feel is more consistent since it has so much synergy with the FBTNB to begin with. I also feel its faster than Teal splashed because instead of a +7 with Teal (and strictly set at only 2 cards able to do that), I'm getting more than that with Sam splash with more oppurtunities to plus.

Defense has never been big in FBTNB (as with all Type 1 decks essentially), as the offense is still massively huge. You might have a bit more wiggle room with FBTNB, but not enough to make anything drastically different than how defenses always are in Type 1.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:01:02 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 20, 2012, 03:19:29 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 20, 2012, 03:02:37 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on March 20, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
I don't see what benefits true FBTNB has over FBTNB with Sam splash.
Primarily a better defense and more offensive options.

I used a splash of Teal for speed and power last year (and if I recall correctly, Martin as well). You're just exchanging the Teal splash for the Sam splash, which I feel is more consistent since it has so much synergy with the FBTNB to begin with. I also feel its faster than Teal splashed because instead of a +7 with Teal (and strictly set at only 2 cards able to do that), I'm getting more than that with Sam splash with more oppurtunities to plus.

Defense has never been big in FBTNB (as with all Type 1 decks essentially), as the offense is still massively huge. You might have a bit more wiggle room with FBTNB, but not enough to make anything drastically different than how defenses always are in Type 1.

The teal splash is smaller than the Sam splash, allowing for more defense. FBTNB is basically all heroes and enhancements you don't play in battle anyway (Brass Serpent, Feasts, Foreign Sword), also allowing more defense and less hand clog.

Master KChief · « **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:39:28 PM »

And FBTNB with Sam splash doesn't use some of the pieces traditionally found in pure FBTNB, such as Helez, Maharai, B Serpent, I am Heailng, etc. This also allows for a bigger defense if one so desires...but again, lets be honest, its not like the defense is going to be a full-fledged dedicated defense anyways.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2012, 10:51:32 AM »

Great discussion on definitions, but how does this affect where FBTNB will fall on the tier list. My contention is that FBTNB is upper B Tier, but certainly not A tier when compared to Gardenciples, Genyptions, water-garden, or Sam (which itself often contains some FBTNB).

Master KChief · « **Reply #43 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:13:57 PM »

Traditional FBTNB is Tier 2, 1.5 at best. The redefined FBTNB (FBTNB with Sam support) should probably just be lumped in as a Sam variation at Tier 0.

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Author Topic: Oh Tier me... (Read 7614 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Chronic Apathy

Warrior_Monk