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This is pretty much what I've been hearing since Octoberish. The rise of Sam is an interesting prospect, since it allows for (some) creativity with decks, moreso than Di or TGT did. I'd like to see more comment on turtle decks, since I want to see lp in a Tebow jersey.
Zebulun is also quite a hand full.
I would post about turtles if they were relevant to the meta.
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 13, 2012, 11:26:58 AMZebulun is also quite a hand full.OK, that was just hilarious :)On a more serious note, this is an EXCELLENT breakdown of the current top offenses in the T1-2p meta. I'd be interested in seeing you do a similar breakdown of the current top defenses.
Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 13, 2012, 11:26:58 AMZebulun is also quite a hand full.OK, that was just hilarious
On a more serious note, this is an EXCELLENT breakdown of the current top offenses in the T1-2p meta. I'd be interested in seeing you do a similar breakdown of the current top defenses.
It's a cycle.
The rise of Sam is an interesting prospect, since it allows for (some) creativity with decks, moreso than Di or TGT did.
Quote from: SomeKittens on February 13, 2012, 02:18:54 PM The rise of Sam is an interesting prospect, since it allows for (some) creativity with decks, moreso than Di or TGT did.This rise of Sam is most interesting but is Sam the best offense possible? I hold that TGT is going to take nats again. 1. It's as powerful as Sam I disagree. TGT is pretty situational, and is much more counterable than Sam. 2. People tech against Sam more that they do against TGT Again, I disagree. I mono color defense, a fort killer or two, a protect fort, and maybe an ignore counter (Golgotha, ect.) pretty much takes care of TGT. How do you tech against the ridiculous number of interrupt win CBN enhancements Sam has?3. IMO Sam decks are a bit tougher to play compared to TGT What do you guys think? Last year when disciples were the thing, a lot of people thought that they would take nats but they didn't, and I don't think Sam will either. TGT will bring home the big one again. However, TGT got nothing but counters in the new set. It actually got some new cards in Di. Ok it did get Golgotha too…
Quote from: Wings of Music on February 14, 2012, 11:57:02 AMQuote from: SomeKittens on February 13, 2012, 02:18:54 PM The rise of Sam is an interesting prospect, since it allows for (some) creativity with decks, moreso than Di or TGT did.This rise of Sam is most interesting but is Sam the best offense possible? I hold that TGT is going to take nats again. 1. It's as powerful as Sam I disagree. TGT is pretty situational, and is much more counterable than Sam. TGT will still often end up with an early walk in before they get their counter up and in games where things come down to the wire, that walk in is often the difference between victory and defeat.2. People tech against Sam more that they do against TGT Again, I disagree. I mono color defense, a fort killer or two, a protect fort, and maybe an ignore counter (Golgotha, ect.) pretty much takes care of TGT. How do you tech against the ridiculous number of interrupt win CBN enhancements Sam has? By gaining inish against Sam's massive banding chains to drop a CBN battle winner of your own. And as for fort killers, they take up valuable deck space, space that you could use to put in a better stop. As Alex said above, TGT is good without TGT. They have their share of awesome enhancements too, particularly in a GardenDiciples deck that uses AoCp. Additionally Mono-color offenses aren't 'that' popular, mostly because defense in general is not that popular. Also I don't know of any fort outside of ToT and GoJ that protects characters from being set-aside.3. IMO Sam decks are a bit tougher to play compared to TGT What do you guys think? Last year when disciples were the thing, a lot of people thought that they would take nats but they didn't, and I don't think Sam will either. TGT will bring home the big one again. However, TGT got nothing but counters in the new set. It actually got some new cards in Di. Ok it did get Golgotha too… Sure TGT got counters but I haven't really seen anyone using them extensively. That really is the basis of my argumentation, people aren't using TGT counters, therefore, what's stopping it from winning nats again?
Quote from: SomeKittens on February 13, 2012, 02:18:54 PM The rise of Sam is an interesting prospect, since it allows for (some) creativity with decks, moreso than Di or TGT did.This rise of Sam is most interesting but is Sam the best offense possible? I hold that TGT is going to take nats again. 1. It's as powerful as Sam I disagree. TGT is pretty situational, and is much more counterable than Sam. TGT will still often end up with an early walk in before they get their counter up and in games where things come down to the wire, that walk in is often the difference between victory and defeat.2. People tech against Sam more that they do against TGT Again, I disagree. I mono color defense, a fort killer or two, a protect fort, and maybe an ignore counter (Golgotha, ect.) pretty much takes care of TGT. How do you tech against the ridiculous number of interrupt win CBN enhancements Sam has? By gaining inish against Sam's massive banding chains to drop a CBN battle winner of your own. And as for fort killers, they take up valuable deck space, space that you could use to put in a better stop. As Alex said above, TGT is good without TGT. They have their share of awesome enhancements too, particularly in a GardenDiciples deck that uses AoCp. Additionally Mono-color offenses aren't 'that' popular, mostly because defense in general is not that popular. Also I don't know of any fort outside of ToT and GoJ that protects characters from being set-aside.3. IMO Sam decks are a bit tougher to play compared to TGT What do you guys think? Last year when disciples were the thing, a lot of people thought that they would take nats but they didn't, and I don't think Sam will either. TGT will bring home the big one again. However, TGT got nothing but counters in the new set. It actually got some new cards in Di. Ok it did get Golgotha too… Sure TGT got counters but I haven't really seen anyone using them extensively. That really is the basis of my argumentation, people aren't using TGT counters, therefore, what's stopping it from winning nats again?
By gaining inish against Sam's massive banding chains to drop a CBN battle winner of your own. And as for fort killers, they take up valuable deck space, space that you could use to put in a better stop. As Alex said above, TGT is good without TGT. They have their share of awesome enhancements too, particularly in a GardenDiciples deck that uses AoCp. Additionally Mono-color offenses aren't 'that' popular, mostly because defense in general is not that popular. Also I don't know of any fort outside of ToT and GoJ that protects characters from being set-aside.
T1 defenses arent centralizing the meta? What?
TGT will still often end up with an early walk in before they get their counter up and in games where things come down to the wire, that walk in is often the difference between victory and defeat.
Sure TGT got counters but I haven't really seen anyone using them extensively. That really is the basis of my argumentation, people aren't using TGT counters, therefore, what's stopping it from winning nats again?
QuoteSure TGT got counters but I haven't really seen anyone using them extensively. That really is the basis of my argumentation, people aren't using TGT counters, therefore, what's stopping it from winning nats again?Better offenses being available is what's stopping it from winning Nats. "No strong counters came out" isn't a strong argument; it's essentially the equivalent of saying, "Syrians didn't get any counters this set, so what's stopping them from being the Nats winning defense?" Technically, nothing, except there are simply better options out there. I'm not saying that TGT definitely won't win Nats this year, but it winning last year was a bit of a fluke (six first turn Mayhems anyone) and Disciples, from what I can recall (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong), still dominated the top 10 list.
Keep in mind that when people are referring to TGT, they are not referring to Gardensciples...
Can you name some CBN evil battle winners that stop a six or seven character FBTN banding chain?