Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Deck Concepts => Topic started by: DrowningFish on August 28, 2014, 04:03:51 PM
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^ pretty much self explanatory. Just looking for others input
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The "best" Philistine defenses will use Goliath, yes. He is such a unique character with his ability that he gives Philistines an element that no other defense really has.
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Honestly I'd say no. Sure he is great first turn but then what? His next best thing is that he is an AotL target. In all honesty though I wouldn't waste an angel on him. The last big play off him just uses lots wife to band to him and then stone whoever they present.
Straight phillies lose the lots wife stone play so definitely don't need Goliath.
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Straight phillies lose the lots wife stone play so definitely don't need Goliath.
How do they lose that play? Any black defense can use Stone, and it doesn't make sense not to include it to me (regardless of protection is huge). It is just CBN on a female Canaanite is all. And if you splash her (which you should), stone is even better.
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Goliath just messes with people.
Unless they know what's in your hand (which granted is easier these days), they have no idea if you'll use Goliath and make them switch Heroes or if Goliath is just a decoy for a different play they have waiting. He's also easy to recur with Armorbearer and Outpost.
In a straight Phili's defense with at least 5 ECs, what EC would you want to use instead of Goliath?
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Straight phillies lose the lots wife stone play so definitely don't need Goliath.
How do they lose that play? Any black defense can use Stone, and it doesn't make sense not to include it to me (regardless of protection is huge). It is just CBN on a female Canaanite is all. And if you splash her (which you should), stone is even better.
My thought is if you wanted a "straight" Philly defense u don't play a Canaanite
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Until there's a card for Philistines that says "If all your ECs are Philistines..." then really there's no reason Lot's Wife shouldn't be in every Philistine defense (w/ Stone). That is to say that the "best" Philistine defense is not a "straight Philistine" defense, which is true for most defenses. It's like people using Vittles or Tibbles in a Pharisees defense, Balaam in an Assyrian defense or King of Tyrus in an Egyptian defense.
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Goliath is unquestionably necessary in a Philistine defense. Lot's Wife is definitely a good idea, though if you really want to keep straight Phillies for whatever reason (I wouldn't), Delilah does the trick almost as well. But Goliath's raw power combined with his staying power via Philly Outpost + Armorbearer makes him at minimum the second best EC in the defense, with Armorbearer possibly first depending on your perspective.
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Honestly I'd say no. Sure he is great first turn but then what? His next best thing is that he is an AotL target. In all honesty though I wouldn't waste an angel on him. The last big play off him just uses lots wife to band to him and then stone whoever they present.
Straight phillies lose the lots wife stone play so definitely don't need Goliath.
You're forgetting how Goliath impacts the psychology of the game. I'm not familiar with how the meta is currently developing, but in the past few years, many offenses can find themselves with only one viable rescue, and knowing your opponent can get Goliath out means you're constantly required to evaluate how to make the initial rescue. You can go in with your one rescue and hope your opponent doesn't block with Goliath, or you can feint and hope he doesn't block with anyone else. Without that psychological element, Phillies are pretty easy to break down, especially if you're playing an offense that relies on battlewinners. Additionally, I agree with others that there's no real reason to play straight Philistines, so that last point is moot.
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That element is still in the game. I run Philli/cannanites defence, and many many times I can stop them just by the threat of Goliath, and so many people don't even try a rescue attempt just because if they guess wrong their hero is dead.