Author Topic: deck size  (Read 3454 times)

Offline Eragon5

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deck size
« on: March 24, 2015, 06:41:42 PM »
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If I were to go to a tournament what deck size, 50 to 150 would you recommend to me and why? I'm asking since I have yet to go to a tournament, but would like to, and want to hear from the experts.
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Offline Nameless

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Re: deck size
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 06:45:24 PM »
+1
Your deck should most always be between 50-56 cards.  This allows you to get to your good cards faster without them being diluted in a lot of fluff.  The only reason that you would want to have more cards would be if it is part of your strategy.  A turtle deck or defensive heavy deck might want to have more cards.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: deck size
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 06:49:57 PM »
+2
You will hear a lot of arguments about how 50 is best, no 51, nope 56, no it's 57, no, 52... But the main thing is that the smaller your deck is, the faster you get to the cards you need (mainly SoG/NJ) to win the game, so 50-56 is almost always recommended as above.  After that, it's really gravy.

Offline Eragon5

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Re: deck size
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 07:07:55 PM »
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From what I've seen on this forum I wondered as much. However, I am still open to suggestions on this point.
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Offline kram1138

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Re: deck size
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 09:01:47 PM »
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Not that I actually play T1, deck size seems to have much controversy. Has no one ever tried playing a bunch of games with a bunch of decks with a bunch of different deck sizes to see how they actually perform?
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TheHobbit13

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Re: deck size
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 09:22:34 PM »
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It's been a she since a 56 took Nat's.

Offline jbeers285

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Re: deck size
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 09:35:20 PM »
+1
It's been a she since a 56 took Nat's.

I don't think the results from one Nats should be a large determining factor in consistency of a deck based on size.  Luck is a large portion of winning a national tournament and getting great draws throughout a tournament can overcome an oversized deck.  I'm not saying it should be totally discounted however, it should be weighed within a larger sample size.
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LukeChips

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Re: deck size
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 11:21:54 AM »
+2
There is a great article in redemption meta gaming by Westy about why smaller decks are better.
http://redemptionmetagaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/why-smaller-decks-are-better.html
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 11:23:58 AM by LukeChips »

Offline Eragon5

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Re: deck size
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 11:39:42 AM »
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Thanks for the link, and thanks Westy for your article, it's helpful  :).
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: deck size
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 02:08:32 PM »
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I am personally a fan of the 154 card Disciples/Babylonians/Demons deck. I play no dominants, have defense for days, and have enough draw to max out my hand size on a regular basis during a game. It will not win Nats but it is a bunch of fun and the guys in my playgroup see it as a personal achievement to be able to get through and rescue even one soul...which happens occasionally.

Offline Eragon5

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Re: deck size
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 03:08:32 PM »
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I myself have a similar deck, it's closer to 115, and doesn't have many demons at all, but it's very defense heavy. I'm sure you'd agree that when it works well, it's very fun to play   ;).
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Chris

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Re: deck size
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2015, 06:16:59 PM »
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I would argue that anything between 50-57 could be considered "optimal" for a number of different reasons. For years, 50 was nearly universally considered the best, for the reasons outlined in the linked article that Westy wrote. I think most of the reasons originally cited still hold, but there are so many good options in most viable themes, that many decks can benefit by having a couple extra battle winners or draw abilities. It's now easily possible to get above 50 cards without including any "fluff" cards. Plus, Son of God and New Jerusalem are now more easily searched out, which makes drawing into them less necessary than it was 3-4 years ago. An important thing to keep in mind is that Redemption has never been popular enough to generate sufficient sample sizes, so anyone who insists that something is definitely better than someone else based on results is going to be using unreliable data. Plus, it doesn't matter if "X deck from 2010 won Y category at Nats and had Z cards" because the card selection is wildly different than what it was then. Even so, the principals outlined in Westy's article from less year do generally hold up, so anything higher than 57 is going to run into some major problems, and I believe that the cons of playing a larger deck at that point outweigh the pros.

LukeChips

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Re: deck size
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2015, 06:39:03 PM »
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I am personally a fan of the 154 card Disciples/Babylonians/Demons deck. I play no dominants, have defense for days, and have enough draw to max out my hand size on a regular basis during a game. It will not win Nats but it is a bunch of fun and the guys in my playgroup see it as a personal achievement to be able to get through and rescue even one soul...which happens occasionally.
Could this deck be possible and practicle in T1.

Offline Red

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Re: deck size
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2015, 07:08:04 PM »
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I am personally a fan of the 154 card Disciples/Babylonians/Demons deck. I play no dominants, have defense for days, and have enough draw to max out my hand size on a regular basis during a game. It will not win Nats but it is a bunch of fun and the guys in my playgroup see it as a personal achievement to be able to get through and rescue even one soul...which happens occasionally.
Could this deck be possible and practicle in T1.
Dude, it is a T1 deck.
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: deck size
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 08:59:51 PM »
+1
Yeah...it is a Type 1 deck. When at any tournament and I have enough misplays to take myself out of any type of contention, I break out the 154 card deck. It is literally the most cards legally allowed in a Type 1 deck. Most people look at me and say something like, "Dude, you know this is Type 1 right?"  8)

TheHobbit13

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Re: deck size
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 12:50:42 AM »
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154 is viable but you can't just screw around. MasterQ had the right idea and was a pro at it. IMO it was one turn away from winning nationals.

Offline Jesusman

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Re: deck size
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2015, 07:44:39 PM »
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Greetings,

I'm a bit old school in my approach, but deck size matters little as long as you have good search and draw cards. I've heard the same old drum beaters that to win you need a 50 card deck to get your cards faster. Problem is that having such a low deck makes you deck out faster. Personally, I run decks with about 8 or 9 lost souls. When I was playing on a regular basis, I had little problem getting the cards I needed when I needed them. if you can make the deck run smoothly, then deck size doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

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