Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Deck Concepts => Topic started by: Warrior_Monk on August 06, 2010, 01:08:37 AM
-
well guys, Nationals is coming around again, and this time T1 Multi will be in the largest attendance ever. for those of you who weren't around for the first MASK, it stands for Multiplayer Association of Speed Killers. Pretty straight forward.
As for what to do now, we only ask that you agree to put at least 6 of the following cards into whatever deck you plan to play T1-multi player. Many of them are probably in your deck already and are also good against other decks besides speed. My personal favorites would be the top 6, but some of those are expensive. The best cheap ones would probably be the "Speed bump", "Confusion of mind", "Rain becomes dust", "Golden calf", "Flee from enemies", and "Wasting disease"...with all of them in your deck you should be able to shut down any speed deck with the help of 1 other MASK player in the game.
The rest of your deck can be anything that you want. That is part of the beauty of MASK. It works with a variety of decks which will make T1 multi-player fun again. There will be a variety of strategies instead of just the same speed deck over and over. Since most of the anti-speed cards are artifacts, nts, lost souls, and fortresses, they can work with any brigade just as easily. Be creative and have fun.
"Speed Bump" LS
Confusion of mind
Rain becomes dust
Household idols
Destruction of Nehustan
The Darkness
Golden calf
Flee from enemies
Wasting disease
Doubt
Unknown nation
12 fingered giant
Trap of the devil
Mary's Seven Demons
obviously, the game has changed a lot since those days. what I've found very effective against speed is cards like Unknown Nation, Gates of Hell, Magic Charms, Unholy Writ, and any other cards that can help end the battle after it's over. Speed decks nowadays generally use just enough battle winners to win, so these cards can completely shut down speed decks. Also, now TGT is in pretty much every single speed deck (what else is new). large defenses and similar defenses should effectively shut them down.
if you wish to join MASK, and are going to nationals, please PM me with your deck list.
-
Stop thinking of Redemption and watch Doctor Who. Noob.
-
Stop thinking of Redemption and watch Doctor Who. Noob.
just finished episode 3. I'll fall asleep during episode 4.
-
I'll commit if you can guarrantee me that the MASK players wont run and get the
Foof tins Disciples packs in booster draft instead ;)
-
I'll commit if you can guarrantee me that the MASK players wont run and get the Foof tins Disciples packs in booster draft instead ;)
booster draft is not at the same time. T1 Multi is by itself.
-
Isn't Darius' Decree another good Speed Killer in T-1 Multi?
-
Isn't Darius' Decree another good Speed Killer in T-1 Multi?
Yes it is :)
-
If you randomly splash in Philly Outpost, Philly Garrison, Philly Armour Bearer, and 12FG you can even recur the 12FG to make speed users more sadface :D.
-
I am in. I have mentioned this to a few other people since they are forcing us to play the worst category ever, we might as well make the most of it...
Viva la revolucion!
Kirk
-
There's no teams? I'm confused.
-
I am in. I have mentioned this to a few other people since they are forcing us to play the worst category ever, we might as well make the most of it...
Viva la revolucion!
Kirk
No one is FORCING you to play...You can take the night off! ;)
ANd I forgot it was in the evening all by itself. You are going to have to have a minimum of 50 MASK players in order to even make a dent. I dont think this is going to go over very well.... :-\
-
I know, but I might as well keep at least one individual per table from having a chance to win...
The schedule at nationals is:
Thurs day - T2 2p/Sealed
Thurs night - T1 Multi
Fri - T1 2p/T2 Multi
Sat - Booster Draft/Teams
Hence you can play T1 Multi or not play it. So play it and bring your defense.
Kirk
-
SO will this be the year of T1 Multi HEROLESS???
-
Any one have any sample MASK decks they could post? I havnt played multi in years so im kinda out of the loop in making multi decks lol
-
Any one have any sample MASK decks they could post? I havnt played multi in years so im kinda out of the loop in making multi decks lol
me too. are you going to be at nats?
-
yeppers ill be there and remember our goal is to get our whole table to time out with the score at 4-4-4-4 :p
-
I don't have a complete deck yet, but I'll give you a general rundown on what you should consider.
Many T1 multi decks are 50 cards, with many forms of drawing in them. There is minimal defense that is used to get a quick stall block here or there.
So make your deck designed to help punish those who run the aforementioned decks. Include artifacts to slow them down, a larger defense than the simple stall blocks, or sites. Include ways to help your opponents' without defense block: namely Doubt and the Darkness.
I will PM you both when I get a more polished deck.
Kirk
-
Kirk, is your polished version done? I'm leaving today, and I won't have all my cards at nats.
-
The key to MASK working is simple. There just needs to be a lot of people playing with a lot of defense. If you are planning on helping this cause at Nats do the following.
1 - Put the "Speed Bump" LS and the LS that stops all opp hero SAs if your opp has more than 3 good brigades in play.
2 - Put in The Darkness and have enough Banding/FBN/Immune ECs in your deck to always keep one there to loan people.
3 - If your offense is primarily NT, then put in Golden Calf. If your offense is primarily OT, then put in Confusion of Mind.
4 - In your defense add either a Herod + Herod's Treachery - or - a magician + Magic Charms.
5 - If your defense is primarily human put in Unknown Nation. If your defense is primarily demon put in Gates of Hell.
6 - Add another defensive art such as Unholy Writ, Darius Decree, Rain Becomes Dust, or Household Idols
7 - Play strategically to stop speed decks. That means use your Destruction of Nehustan on their Gifts of the Magi. Use Darius Decree when they set aside their heroes. Use Christian Martyr or Burial or Grapes of Wrath to stop them if they win a battle. If you have a side effect (like killing that 3rd character with Haman's Plot when the person attacking you only has 2 in play) target the speed players. Typically you would give away the first LS in a T1-mp game pretty easily, but don't do it until you determine the player isn't playing speed.
If there are enough people who will do these simple 7 steps, then speed decks will fail at Nats this year. The only question is whether there will be enough people who will do these things.
-
The key to MASK working is simple. There just needs to be a lot of people playing with a lot of defense. If you are planning on helping this cause at Nats do the following.
1 - Put the "Speed Bump" LS and the LS that stops all opp hero SAs if your opp has more than 3 good brigades in play.
2 - Put in The Darkness and have enough Banding/FBN/Immune ECs in your deck to always keep one there to loan people.
3 - If your offense is primarily NT, then put in Golden Calf. If your offense is primarily OT, then put in Confusion of Mind.
4 - In your defense add either a Herod + Herod's Treachery - or - a magician + Magic Charms.
5 - If your defense is primarily human put in Unknown Nation. If your defense is primarily demon put in Gates of Hell.
6 - Add another defensive art such as Unholy Writ, Darius Decree, Rain Becomes Dust, or Household Idols
7 - Play strategically to stop speed decks. That means use your Destruction of Nehustan on their Gifts of the Magi. Use Darius Decree when they set aside their heroes. Use Christian Martyr or Burial or Grapes of Wrath to stop them if they win a battle. If you have a side effect (like killing that 3rd character with Haman's Plot when the person attacking you only has 2 in play) target the speed players. Typically you would give away the first LS in a T1-mp game pretty easily, but don't do it until you determine the player isn't playing speed.
If there are enough people who will do these simple 7 steps, then speed decks will fail at Nats this year. The only question is whether there will be enough people who will do these things.
play Mayhem when somebody has RBD active. utterly kill speed decks. (EDIT: thought it said "an opponent" lame...)
my deck will include:
Speed Bump, Punisher, Gates, Writ, Charms, The Darkness, RBD, Darius' Decree, and possibly confusion of mind...
-
I will be countering the counterers, by playing with CBN heroes, enough drawing cards to pick up the pace against the opponent, while not overloading, plenty of anti-capture, and a copy of Miraculous Hankerchiefs :)
-
I will be countering the counterers, by playing with CBN heroes, enough drawing cards to pick up the pace against the opponent, while not overloading, plenty of anti-capture, and a copy of Miraculous Hankerchiefs :)
so, you're going to be playing a stereotypical speed/TGT deck + Hankies?
-
I will be countering the counterers, by playing with CBN heroes, enough drawing cards to pick up the pace against the opponent, while not overloading, plenty of anti-capture, and a copy of Miraculous Hankerchiefs :)
#1 - your CBN heroes won't matter if after they play their battle winner another EC appears from UN or GoH
#2 - your CBN heroes die by CM just as easily, and Burial stops them from having anything to rescue
#3 - if you have a bunch of CBN heroes, then you'll probably have more than 3 brigades which will mess up your other heroes
#4 - your drawing won't work with RBD up
#5 - your anti-capture won't work if your heroes SAs don't work (other than Z-temple) and you can still get sent back with Herod's Treachery
#6 - you're Hanky can get DoN'd or shuffled with CA
#7 - MOST OF ALL, if you're having to add in all these counters, then suddenly your deck doesn't have room for all the normal stuff, and either becomes less powerful overall, or less speedy. In either case, MASK was successful.
-
I will be countering the counterers, by playing with CBN heroes, enough drawing cards to pick up the pace against the opponent, while not overloading, plenty of anti-capture, and a copy of Miraculous Hankerchiefs :)
#1 - your CBN heroes won't matter if after they play their battle winner another EC appears from UN or GoH
#2 - your CBN heroes die by CM just as easily, and Burial stops them from having anything to rescue
#3 - if you have a bunch of CBN heroes, then you'll probably have more than 3 brigades which will mess up your other heroes
#4 - your drawing won't work with RBD up
#5 - your anti-capture won't work if your heroes SAs don't work (other than Z-temple) and you can still get sent back with Herod's Treachery
#6 - you're Hanky can get DoN'd or shuffled with CA
#7 - MOST OF ALL, if you're having to add in all these counters, then suddenly your deck doesn't have room for all the normal stuff, and either becomes less powerful overall, or less speedy. In either case, MASK was successful.
#1 Wool Fleece. adding to battle is banding, ¿no?
#2 I am Healing. Harvest Time
#3 CBN Heroes? CBN Enhancements, mostly. White, Teal, and Purple.
#4 DoN.
#5 King Hezikiah takes care of Herod's Treachery. and the heroes SAs work.
#6 Tabernacle, Lampy, and then Magic Charms. good luck getting rid of three arts.
#7 These cards are quite normally in a speed deck.
#8 I hate these decks, but Rob has definitely kept the balance in favor of the heroes.
-
#1 Wool Fleece. adding to battle is banding, ¿no?
#2 I am Healing. Harvest Time
#3 CBN Heroes? CBN Enhancements, mostly. White, Teal, and Purple.
#4 DoN.
#5 King Hezikiah takes care of Herod's Treachery. and the heroes SAs work.
#6 Tabernacle, Lampy, and then Magic Charms. good luck getting rid of three arts.
#7 These cards are quite normally in a speed deck.
#8 I hate these decks, but Rob has definitely kept the balance in favor of the heroes.
T1-mp speed decks do NOT use Miraculous Handkerchiefs, or Wool Fleece, or King Hezekiah, or Tabernacle, or Magic Charms. Forcing them to add these 5 cards, means that they will be taking out 5 other cards. In addition, many of these counters will work against 1 MASK deck at the table (ie. DoN on their G-Cow), but won't help much if there are more than 1 MASK deck at the table. That is why it is critical for there to be enough MASK players to have at least 2 at every table. In the past, that has only required about 15 people. However, it will probably require a few more players this year due to increased participation in the event (since it won't be paired with Booster finally).
-
#1 Wool Fleece. adding to battle is banding, ¿no?
#2 I am Healing. Harvest Time
#3 CBN Heroes? CBN Enhancements, mostly. White, Teal, and Purple.
#4 DoN.
#5 King Hezikiah takes care of Herod's Treachery. and the heroes SAs work.
#6 Tabernacle, Lampy, and then Magic Charms. good luck getting rid of three arts.
#7 These cards are quite normally in a speed deck.
#8 I hate these decks, but Rob has definitely kept the balance in favor of the heroes.
T1-mp speed decks do NOT use Miraculous Handkerchiefs, or Wool Fleece, or King Hezekiah, or Tabernacle, or Magic Charms. Forcing them to add these 5 cards, means that they will be taking out 5 other cards. In addition, many of these counters will work against 1 MASK deck at the table (ie. DoN on their G-Cow), but won't help much if there are more than 1 MASK deck at the table. That is why it is critical for there to be enough MASK players to have at least 2 at every table. In the past, that has only required about 15 people. However, it will probably require a few more players this year due to increased participation in the event (since it won't be paired with Booster finally).
You haven't seen his multi deck.... with the exception of Hankies (maybe Wool Fleece?) those are cards I've seen him use in "speed" decks.
-
You haven't seen his multi deck.... with the exception of Hankies (maybe Wool Fleece?) those are cards I've seen him use in "speed" decks.
Nope, but I've seen the Daniel Whitten decks (http://www.freewebs.com/sampledecks/Deck-N-08-T1-MP-1st.html) that have set the standard for excellence in T1-mp by winning Nats two years in a row. And none of those cards are in there.
-
Dude, you've played me once, and I didn't have any of those cards :)
I don't know how it will all work out Prof, its just a theory I'm toying with.
-
Dude, you've played me once, and I didn't have any of those cards :)
I don't know how it will all work out Prof, its just a theory I'm toying with.
A.) I PLAYED YOU TWICE AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THOSE CARDS.
B.) I WAS REFERRING TO RING WRAITH.
-
I am of the opinion that even if 1/2 of players are "masked" up, it still won't work. But that's just me. I played booster draft anyway.
-
I am of the opinion that even if 1/2 of players are "masked" up, it still won't work. But that's just me. I played booster draft anyway.
I know from experience that if 1/2 of the players are in MASK that it will work. But that's because I usually play T1-mp in the MW Region where at least 1/2 the players NORMALLY play with defense. T1-mp is so much more fun at Regionals than at Nationals.
-
Thats because Regional tournaments are so much more fun that National tournaments, and local t2-only tournaments are the most fun :-*
-
I would love to see all the MASK plays get either absolutely destroyed or be the destroyers at nationals. Personally I don't think it will work but we'll see, for multi i'm playing a bit heavier than most on the defensive side but still a speedy deck to keep up with the faster decks, and I threw in john so that i can use someone elses garden tomb against them. ;D
-
I would love to see all the MASK plays get either absolutely destroyed or be the destroyers at nationals. Personally I don't think it will work but we'll see, for multi i'm playing a bit heavier than most on the defensive side but still a speedy deck to keep up with the faster decks, and I threw in john so that i can use someone elses garden tomb against them. ;D
I could start a flame war for that comment. I honestly think MASK will utterly fail. but I could care less about T1-Multi.
-
I would love to see all the MASK plays get either absolutely destroyed or be the destroyers at nationals. Personally I don't think it will work but we'll see, for multi i'm playing a bit heavier than most on the defensive side but still a speedy deck to keep up with the faster decks, and I threw in john so that i can use someone elses garden tomb against them. ;D
I could start a flame war for that comment. I honestly think MASK will utterly fail. but I could care less about T1-Multi.
Doesn't Wasting Disease really slow speed down too? I think it was in the original list, and it stops a good ability that allows the playing of an enhancement. If the MASK players all use Lampstand to stop these crucial artifacts from being discarded by DON, it might work.
Also, what about Love of Money and Confusion to (hopefully) take away the Speed player's SOG,NJ, etc?
I'd just like to say that you MASK folks have my full support. I win most of the T1 Multi tournaments I play by using White NT Female Speed and TGT, because everyone else here does speed and TGT too. Anything that could change the face of the T1 multi game and allow someone to win WITHOUT playing speed (which I despise) is a very good thing, in my opinion.
-
i'd join MASK but it's hard because i can't go :'(
-
With all the doms flying around, Throwing in Lampstand and Altar o Ahaz can really be a game changer, too.
-
MASK failed for those who care
-
How bad...
-
How bad...
Bad enough for it to fail, not bad enough for anyone to care.
-
How bad...
Bad enough for it to fail, not bad enough for anyone to care.
:(
-
MASK was a huge success. bigger than I expected. people (well, us...) actually had FUN playing T1-Multi.
-
Did a speed deck win? If so, MASK failed.
-
MASK was a huge success. bigger than I expected. people (well, us...) actually had FUN playing T1-Multi.
That just means you didn't personally fail :)
-
MASK was a huge success. bigger than I expected. people (well, us...) actually had FUN playing T1-Multi.
That just means you didn't personally fail :)
we accomplished our goal. just not the goal that Prof wanted.
-
I had fun playing top table with my Speed. :)
-
MASK was a huge success. bigger than I expected. people (well, us...) actually had FUN playing T1-Multi.
^Hugely important. Remember folks, it's a GAME!
-
I dunno, I appreciated placing in 3rd with my legitimately non-speed, totally balanced deck. :)
-
All I sought out to accomplish was to frustrate every speed player that I faced. Based on 4 of my 5 games timing out, with the only game completed coming from a misplayed dominant by one of my opponents, I accomplished my mission.
Kirk
-
I would have totally done MASK, had I had the cards.
-
I would have totally done MASK, had I had the cards.
All you needed was golden calf and art destoryers and you have semi-mask deck.
-
well, I just traded for the masks of fear/self-glorification/pride, does that count?
-
well, I just traded for the masks of fear/self-glorification/pride, does that count?
do you have a good defense? and a g-cow?
-
G-cow (imagine a g-man, but bovine) yes, but I don't have the greatest defense.
-
I would have totally done MASK, had I had the cards.
All you needed was golden calf and art destoryers and you have semi-mask deck.
that's not true at all. TGT Speed was rampant. G-Cow does nothing against that, and the only artifact you really need to hurt is Gifts.