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Author Topic: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory  (Read 24511 times)

Offline Gohanick

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500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« on: November 29, 2008, 07:39:42 AM »
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Let me give you something to wrap your mind around.
I would eventually like to build a deck like this down the road, but it would take awhile to get it complete. Here are a few bulleted points and strategies you would use for this deck. I may come back and revise this later, but for now I think bullets are the best way to quickly explain my concepts of a 500 card deck to you.

500 Card deck - 72 lost souls (I think) - 10 of each card allowed.

- You would use lost souls offensively and defensively. For example, with 10 of the new set a Hero aside lost souls you would be able to shut down their offense by setting it all aside. 10 Hoppers means they would not be able to stop you with sites, and with 10 evil discarder lost souls you could shut down your opponents offense after they deck out.

- TO effectively use the lost souls abilities, you would want a speed deck to draw them out and cards such as shufflers and death of unrighteous to shuffle them back in to use their abilities again.

- For speed, there are 3 good Draw and play another enhancement in deck plus Book of Jashar which would equal 70 drawn cards if you play them all. You would add in the purple and gold (search and exchange for an enhancement) to add make sure you have the opportunity to play a draw card. If you could get all your lost souls out, that would also be another 72 cards drawn. Altogether, that is 142 cards you can draw (technically your deck will be down 212 cards because your lost souls will be out and cause you to draw another card). Perhaps maybe focus on evil drawing too?

- New speed idea. If you have gifts of the magi up and play 10 Love at first sights on your opponent, that is 80 extra cards for you to draw bringing your deck down a total of 292 cards.

- 10 Babylonian banquet halls would hold all of your lost souls

- May want to focus on a stall defense until your opponent decks out. Example - 10 Uzzahs (if you could play them all effectively, that's 30 cards your opponent will draw until they can get to you).

- more to come and feel free to input on this deck. It is going to take alot of work to make it viable.

- the problem is finding a defense that works after you have hopefully drawn your deck and discard most of your duplicate evil cards. Any generic card ideas?

« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 09:43:48 AM by Gohanick »
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2008, 07:46:00 AM »
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It's an interesting idea...I think it would need a lot of drawing abilities, and it would take a lot of work.
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TheMarti

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2008, 08:50:21 AM »
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But there are other rules... wouldn't you only be able to have 3 of each lost soul? and arts and such? or am i mixing T1 w/ T2 rules?
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 10:15:35 AM »
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I think that's T2, yeah.
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Offline DaClock

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 02:50:17 PM »
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There is a 3 per deck rule for characters and enhancements without special abilities.

I think that you may be going about this idea wrong. Instead of being focused on drawing lost souls and getting as many of them as you can you should rather be focused on burying those lost souls on the bottom half of your deck, which more than likely you'll never see.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2008, 07:08:02 PM »
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The Shuffler could ruin that strategy.
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Offline DaClock

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2008, 11:18:12 PM »
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Quote from: BubbleBoy on November 29, 2008, 07:08:02 PM
The Shuffler could ruin that strategy.

The shuffler could make the strategy. If you draw out your whole deck in one turn (possible, unlikely) then all your ls are in play. Sog/NJ on shuffler to put all the lost souls in your deck. Then use Prosperity's ability to place all your deck back on top of those ls.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2008, 12:48:12 AM »
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That strategy has been attempted before and met with some success.
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Offline DaClock

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2008, 01:44:57 AM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on November 30, 2008, 12:48:12 AM
That strategy has been attempted before and met with some success.

But in T2, not really in T1 with a huge deck right?
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Offline galadgawyn

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 12:16:57 AM »
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As mentioned, if you have the right card combination you can easily draw the entire deck.  The problem is the probability of getting the right cards is going to be extremely low with a deck that size.  Because of the large randomness involved, you could easily go 20 turns before drawing a single hero or evil character or have other bad mixes.  So I don't think this will ever be seriously possible but if you're trying it just for fun..... 

Then I think I would put in a large amount (min. of 200) of evil banding characters and definitely include the archers.  You could have massive banding chains and if they discard it, so what?  you've got 100 more where they came from.   I think putting in cards that don't need much to work is good.  So 10 Uzzah's would be fine but also 10 Go into Cap, 10 Unholy Writ, 10 Unknown Nation, 10 Confusion of Mind, 10 Hormah's, 10 Double lost souls, etc..

To have a chance at surviving I think that you need this to be defense heavy.    If you go a couple turns without defending the game will be over and you'll never see more cards than a normal deck.  If you get a defense going however, you could lock out your opponent and have the time you need.  Now that I think about it, it would probably be best as herolite.  You could put in 10 of each of the horses to help your draw.  Your defense could wipe out their deck and you won't need much herowise. 
I might put in 10 generous widows though and 10 Bronze Lavers. 

I hope you have a lot of money.
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 12:21:14 AM »
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RTS!  ;D I love this idea, especially the approaches you are taking. I'll get working on that!
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 03:34:52 AM »
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I use a similar idea with my 100+.

basic idea for ANY large deck.

90% def
10% everything else. A simple Iaholy+Chamber +angels abuse works very well when paired with ark X ?
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 07:52:46 AM »
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Well...something different about a 200 card deck is that you can only have 4 of anything, isn't that right?
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 09:14:14 PM »
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Here's what I got... I've played one player on RTS and it seems to draw pretty well...

Lost Souls: 105
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (Color Guard)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (deck discard)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (discarder)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (Female Only)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (hopper)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (revealer)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shame)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (shuffler)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Soul (Site Discard)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
   Lost Souls (2-line)
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2008, 09:19:08 PM »
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Lamb Dominants: 3
Angel of the Lord
New Jerusalem
Son of God

Grim Reaper Dominants: 2
Christian Martyr
Falling Away

Fortresses: 35
High Priest's Palace
High Priest's Palace
High Priest's Palace
High Priest's Palace
High Priest's Palace
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Kingdoms of the World
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Rome
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection
Wall of Protection

Multi-Color Sites: 8
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth
The Ends of the Earth

Red Sites: 3
Lion's Den
Lion's Den
Lion's Den

Blue Sites: 9
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah
Hormah

Purple Sites: 12
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum
Pergamum

Artifacts: 30
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Burial Shroud
Holy of Holies
Holy of Holies
Holy of Holies
Holy of Holies
Holy of Holies
Priestly Breastplate
Priestly Breastplate
Priestly Breastplate
Priestly Breastplate
Priestly Breastplate
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ
Unholy Writ

White Covenant Cards: 20
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Go Into Captivity (Crimson)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)
.Unknown Nation (Yellow)

Multi-Color Heroes: 5
Faithful Servant
Faithful Servant
Faithful Servant
Faithful Servant
Faithful Servant

White Heroes: 5
Lydia
Lydia
Lydia
Lydia
Lydia

Gold Heroes: 5
Moses
Moses
Moses
Moses
Moses

Purple Heroes: 5
Elijah
Elijah
Elijah
Elijah
Elijah

White Hero Enhancements: 25
Narrow Escape
Narrow Escape
Narrow Escape
Narrow Escape
Narrow Escape
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Transfiguration
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement
Words of Encouragement

Purple Hero Enhancements: 40
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Authority of Christ
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Great Faith
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Prosperity
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
Reach of Desperation
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2008, 09:22:48 PM »
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Crimson Evil Characters: 25
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Archers of Kedar
Gomer
Gomer
Gomer
Gomer
Gomer
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon
Red Dragon

Gold Evil Characters: 10
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus
King of Tyrus

Black Evil Characters: 35
High Priest Annas
High Priest Annas
High Priest Annas
High Priest Caiaphas
High Priest Caiaphas
High Priest Caiaphas
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Lot's Wife
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Temple Guard
Temple Guard
Temple Guard
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers
Greek Philosophers

Gray Evil Characters: 35
Emperor Galba
Emperor Galba
Emperor Galba
Emperor Galba
Emperor Galba
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Nero
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Otho
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Vitellius
Lying Spirit
Lying Spirit
Lying Spirit
Lying Spirit
Lying Spirit

Brown Evil Characters: 20
Persian Presidents
Persian Presidents
Persian Presidents
Persian Presidents
Persian Presidents
Unclean Spirit
Unclean Spirit
Unclean Spirit
Unclean Spirit
Unclean Spirit
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah
Uzzah

Multi-Color Evil Enhancements: 9
Expelling the Jews
Love of Money
Lurking
Lying Unto God
Sinning Hand (Orange)
Sinning Hand (Orange)
Sinning Hand (Orange)
Sinning Hand (Orange)
Sinning Hand (Orange)

Crimson Evil Enhancements: 10
Christian Suing Another
Christian Suing Another
Christian Suing Another
Christian Suing Another
Christian Suing Another
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride

Black Evil Enhancements: 40
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Babel
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Devourer
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison
Joseph in Prison

Gray Evil Enhancements: 55
Balaam's Disobedience
Balaam's Disobedience
Balaam's Disobedience
Balaam's Disobedience
Balaam's Disobedience
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Bearing Bad News
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Gold Shield
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Heavy Taxes
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Momentum Change
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2008, 09:24:51 PM »
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Sorry... I can only type so much in one post, so I divied it all up.  ;D
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2008, 12:48:37 AM »
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Intresting, Have you gotten to use it?
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Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2008, 04:42:03 AM »
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That deck probably costs more than my car. :P
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2008, 08:25:09 AM »
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That was my first thought; how long did it take to type that up?
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Offline metalpsalm

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2008, 12:16:07 PM »
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Fan-tastic! I love outside the box thinking! :laugh:
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Offline DaClock

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2008, 03:19:59 PM »
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How do you have more than 1 Faithful Servant? Aren't there rules for multi-color multiples?
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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2008, 04:52:01 PM »
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Love the idea, and I have used several 203-252 card decks for type 2 2player before. The best they did was getting 3rd at regionals 2 times. The biggest problems I had were timeouts (losses or wins). Also since the deck is so large, you will have skewed draws of either no ls's or tons of them. One thing I discovered was to try and make sure my defenses were 1 color to make sure the ec/enh's matched. Standalones without enhancements (uzzah) are fine, but in 2 color defenses, I had enh/ec mixups when they didn't match, leading to giving up easy lost souls. Searching on both sides of the ball --green searches and gray false peace is always a good idea to get what you need, but again, shuffling huge decks take time so you haveta practice alot with it and be aware of the time left in the match (RTS spoils me with shuffling!). On offense, I would also consider adding I Am Holy, as you can discard all day long and eventually win. Well-built Decks this size have Inevitability--they will eventually grind their opponent down if there is no time limit. The problem, of course, is there is a time limit.   I would look at what the other type 2 players use in decks like this (the successful ones) as you are entering the realm of type 2 with decks this size and the concepts of abusing 1 card over and over again.
Have fun with it!  :)
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2008, 04:52:16 PM »
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Quote from: DaClock on December 07, 2008, 03:19:59 PM
How do you have more than 1 Faithful Servant? Aren't there rules for multi-color multiples?
crap... I totally missed that. Change that to 9 Lydias. :)

@RR, I haven't yet. I'll try to play people over the holidays with it, since this is the last day of the official tournament thing. :)

EDIT: @slugfencer, the idea is to draw my whole deck in one turn. Lydia uses prosperity. then I play trust to take it back and choose NOT to take the hero back. Then I play prosperity again. Then I play narrow escape to NOT take the hero back but take back trust. Play trust to take both other enhancements back. It's a sweet combo I've found, then I play sog and nj on the shuffler(after using all the abilities :)) and bury them beneath my whole deck. All I need is Lydia or FS, and trust, prosperity, narrow escape or great faith in subtitution of any of those. That's how it works.

The defense has enough stand-alone to stall while I draw enhancements that match. I also have like deceiving spirit, self and stuff like that to play multiples. yay!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 04:56:53 PM by fireninja »
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: 500 card type 1 Deck Theory
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2008, 03:58:22 PM »
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That is not legal.

From the REG:
Instant Abilities -> Withdraw from Battle -> Clarifications
"Many withdraw cards state: “… may withdraw from battle.  All enhancements used may be returned to owner’s hand, except this one.”, e.g., Stillness These two sentences are contingent.  You may only keep the enhancements if you withdraw from battle."

Kirk
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Friends don't let friends play T1 multi.
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