Author Topic: Your ideas for utilising Angelic Army (Read 10639 times)

kariusvega · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:27:19 AM »

Cwd is as much an opportunity cost as rescuing with angelic army

The Guardian · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:46:40 AM »

But it's a cost that can be mitigated if you build your deck to account for it. (i.e. CBN/CBP characters, no territory class enhancements unless they are also useful in battle)

I'm definitely not saying CwD can go into any deck, just that it's a legit meta-counter that requires a certain build around it.

kariusvega · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:50:53 AM »

Oh yeah I totally agree but there are limited card slots and cards that simply prove much more effective for completing the objective of the game which is to rescue lost souls

Xonathan · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2017, 11:27:45 AM »

If a deck could win Nats without SoG, I'm sure there is one as well that can win with CWD.

kariusvega · « **Reply #29 on:** July 31, 2017, 11:37:14 AM »

Between death and Christ, I'm siding with Christ

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2017, 11:39:56 AM »

Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 11:27:45 AM

If a deck could win Nats without SoG, I'm sure there is one as well that can win with CWD.

If I put a buckler in my deck and won Nats, that doesn't mean buckler is good it means the deck was good enough to function in spite of running a dead card. Just because a deck that includes or doesn't include a certain card gets results doesn't mean that card choice was optimal.

That said I do know of at least one deck that is almost entirely unaffected by CWD and does quite well with it.

Josh · « **Reply #31 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:02:01 PM »

The problem with CWD is that Humble LS is a thing. Which means if I'm running CWD, I'm almost certainly also running some way of hitting my opponent's hand (I Am Holy, 6th Bowl, 3rd Seal, etc).

kariusvega · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:03:43 PM »

Quote from: Master Q on July 31, 2017, 11:39:53 AM

Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 11:27:45 AM
I'm sure there is one as well that can win with CWD.

I know for sure there is one. And I'm expecting great things from it.

Well, decks in the covenant with death camp sure sound promising

Xonathan · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:17:23 PM »

Quote from: Kevinthedude on July 31, 2017, 11:39:56 AM

Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 11:27:45 AM
If a deck could win Nats without SoG, I'm sure there is one as well that can win with CWD.

If I put a buckler in my deck and won Nats, that doesn't mean buckler is good it means the deck was good enough to function in spite of running a dead card. Just because a deck that includes or doesn't include a certain card gets results doesn't mean that card choice was optimal.

That said I do know of at least one deck that is almost entirely unaffected by CWD and does quite well with it.

Well this a kinda straw man. If CWD is in the deck, I'm sure is central to the strategy.

Xonathan · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:21:11 PM »

Quote from: kariusvega on July 31, 2017, 11:37:14 AM

Between death and Christ, I'm siding with Christ

Christ's Triumphs, huh?

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:22:53 PM »

Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 12:17:23 PM

Quote from: Kevinthedude on July 31, 2017, 11:39:56 AM
Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 11:27:45 AM
If a deck could win Nats without SoG, I'm sure there is one as well that can win with CWD.

If I put a buckler in my deck and won Nats, that doesn't mean buckler is good it means the deck was good enough to function in spite of running a dead card. Just because a deck that includes or doesn't include a certain card gets results doesn't mean that card choice was optimal.

That said I do know of at least one deck that is almost entirely unaffected by CWD and does quite well with it.

Well this a kinda straw man. If CWD is in the deck, I'm sure is central to the strategy.

For the sake of the discussion, even in a deck based around CWD, CWD isn't automatically optimal. It could just be that the cards that happen to work with CWD also happen to be cards that are just good cards in their own right. Especially as has been pointed out with Humble Soul, prevents just aren't what they used to be.

Xonathan · « **Reply #36 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:29:29 PM »

Quote from: Kevinthedude on July 31, 2017, 12:22:53 PM

Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 12:17:23 PM
Quote from: Kevinthedude on July 31, 2017, 11:39:56 AM
Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 11:27:45 AM
If a deck could win Nats without SoG, I'm sure there is one as well that can win with CWD.

If I put a buckler in my deck and won Nats, that doesn't mean buckler is good it means the deck was good enough to function in spite of running a dead card. Just because a deck that includes or doesn't include a certain card gets results doesn't mean that card choice was optimal.

That said I do know of at least one deck that is almost entirely unaffected by CWD and does quite well with it.

Well this a kinda straw man. If CWD is in the deck, I'm sure is central to the strategy.

For the sake of the discussion, even in a deck based around CWD, CWD isn't automatically optimal. It could just be that the cards that happen to work with CWD also happen to be cards that are just good cards in their own right. Especially as has been pointed out with Humble Soul, prevents just aren't what they used to be.

Geez, The humble soul would stump CWD quite a bit. Whatever could I do about that I wonder...

kariusvega · « **Reply #37 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:34:10 PM »

The irony of suggesting cwd works great with angelic army is that cwd is almost the only card worth running angelic army to take out so you effectively have the answer to your own counter

Xonathan · « **Reply #38 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:40:34 PM »

Of course, but you at the same time suggesting to people not to use Angelic Army in a deck. Can't have both.
Every strategy has a counter and none of us has to time or patience to one up on each other on CWD usefulness or lack of, but in the end I wouldn't underestimate it nor a player's creative mind to maximize its potential.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:59:01 PM »

Confusion of Mind is the new Covenant with death. Does the best half of what CWD does and it's just their characters! hehe CWD was awesome with judges but now lots of meta offenses need their hero abilities, and ideally you want to counter the opponent's cards without countering yours.

kariusvega · « **Reply #40 on:** July 31, 2017, 01:02:20 PM »

The Guardian · « **Reply #41 on:** July 31, 2017, 01:13:28 PM »

Quote

Confusion of Mind is the new Covenant with death.

I like using both. Improved chances of getting at least one of them opening hand.

Reth · « **Reply #42 on:** July 31, 2017, 01:18:25 PM »

I also put CoM in many decks and I am also struggling with CwD all the time and did not find a reasonable way to utilise it for my deck ideas.

But due to lack of experience and to be a little back on topic I want to ask what is meant by this exactly:

Quote

Basically you are better off playing the BoM deck and getting those lovely blocks against TSA and angelic army all day

?
Since CoW Moses cannot prevent nor negate TSA resp. AArmy - so I did not get it...

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #43 on:** July 31, 2017, 01:23:36 PM »

Confusion is dramatically less effective now courtesy of Gabe.

kariusvega · « **Reply #44 on:** July 31, 2017, 01:29:18 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 31, 2017, 01:18:25 PM

I also put CoM in many decks and I am also struggling with CwD all the time and did not find a reasonable way to utilise it for my deck ideas.

But due to lack of experience and to be a little back on topic I want to ask what is meant by this exactly:
Quote
Basically you are better off playing the BoM deck and getting those lovely blocks against TSA and angelic army all day
?
Since CoW Moses cannot prevent nor negate TSA resp. AArmy - so I did not get it...

The BoM deck is hardly grazed by either CWD or Angelic Army and Angelic Army with Cwd up is an ideal blocking scenario

On to of that assuming you are sacrificing speed for control you are almost positively without Goys

I have watched far too many games against control decks end 4-5 due to being slow by nature. Decks going 4-5 will almost certainly not make top cut this year

Reth · « **Reply #45 on:** July 31, 2017, 02:13:33 PM »

Quote from: kariusvega on July 31, 2017, 01:29:18 PM

The BoM deck is hardly grazed by either CWD or Angelic Army and Angelic Army with Cwd up is an ideal blocking scenario

Why that? CwD deactivates Moses and why is CwD and AArmy an ideal blocking scenario for a BoM deck (I understand the BoM deck can block this combo in ideal ways)?

And the other way around will Moses deactivate Humble!

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #46 on:** July 31, 2017, 02:19:12 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 31, 2017, 02:13:33 PM

And the other way around will Moses deactivate Humble!

Humble is not affected by Moses. Its ability is CBN.

Reth · « **Reply #47 on:** July 31, 2017, 02:31:03 PM »

But humble only says: "During battle, while opponent has more cards in hand than you, your cards cannot be prevented by opponents' cards."
So where is it CBN?

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #48 on:** July 31, 2017, 02:31:49 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 31, 2017, 02:31:03 PM

But humble only says: "During battle, while opponent has more cards in hand than you, your cards cannot be prevented by opponents' cards."
So where is it CBN?

Quote from: REG

The granting of cannot be prevented to any ability cannot be negated

The same is true for granting Cannot be Interrupted and Cannot be Negated.

Reth · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2017, 02:42:17 PM »

Sure but it also says:

Quote

The cannot be prevented modifier modifies another ability, making it so that the modified ability cannot be targeted
by any prevent or negate ability played before it activates.

Humble modifies itself, so if Moses is now played after Humble it will negate it - or did I miss sth.?

And even more Reg says:

Quote

An ability cannot gain cannot be prevented retroactively; it has cannot be prevented when played or not at all.

But if having a territory class character in play which SA does not have CBP (nor CBI nor CBN) it will get it retroactively when during a future battle with Humble in play at the same side - at least it did not get it when played! How does this work out?

News:

Author Topic: Your ideas for utilising Angelic Army (Read 10639 times)

kariusvega

kariusvega

kariusvega

kariusvega

kariusvega

TheHobbit13

kariusvega

kariusvega