Author Topic: Your ideas for utilising Angelic Army (Read 10173 times)

Reth · « **on:** July 30, 2017, 12:54:01 PM »

Hi there,

currently I do not get really a clue out of this card. It is a rare but its special ability for me seems too restrictive.
Reason: Since even if you construct a pure Reveletion offense you do not play good Dominants such often when attacking with him?
Or did miss something?

Thanks for your opinions.

Bye

Ironisaac · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2017, 01:08:54 PM »

Can you post the special ability? I kind of know what it does, but I don't remember everything it does.

kariusvega · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2017, 01:13:49 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 30, 2017, 12:54:01 PM

Hi there,

currently I do not get really a clue out of this card. It is a rare but its special ability for me seems too restrictive.
Reason: Since even if you construct a pure Reveletion offense you do not play good Dominants such often when attacking with him?
Or did miss something?

Thanks for your opinions.

Bye

hm i think i remember saying the same thing lol

all in all it was clearly determined to be "overpowered" without the restriction even though in a t1 game you may only wind up ever even being able to use it once anyway. i'd say judging from the looks of Jephthah from the J deck it's cost is higher since it costs you playing a dominant when you rescue with it and it only takes out 1 thing. not a card worth playing due to it being watered down by the restrict in my opinion. it may be more popular if it was more playable

overall Three Woes is probably just a better card to have for the same solutions and more which you would have in any deck anyway

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2017, 01:24:10 PM »

It just isn't a good card sadly. Even disregarding the revelation Heroes restriction, it's an ability that has to be used in battle that doesn't help you win the battle. The absolutely best case scenario is that there's some evil character that needs to be removed in territory (Most popular example being Wives right after you were mayhemed) so you attack with this guy and play SoG to kill the Wives. The opportunity cost of this is you are not using some other angel like wrath angel or the draw 3 angel, and you are handing your opponent initiative on a silver platter (12/12). I played a Revelation angel deck for a little while when RoJ first came out and had to cut this guy because there were just always better angels to attack with.

The Guardian · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2017, 01:41:37 PM »

The original version of Army did not have a limit on the number of discards per turn. During playtesting, I built a deck that included 6 good dominants plus Three Woes, and my opponents literally could not keep defense on the table (especially since TSC gives an extra dominant play). It was decided that was simply too much territory destruction for one card. Yes, it's a "cost" to play a good dominant, but you aren't really sacrificing anything because you also get the benefit of the dominant--the only sacrifice is perhaps giving up the opportunity to play the dominant at a more opportune time.

Combined with The White Stone (whose ability later moved to Book of Life), Army was just ridiculous.

Now I won't sit here and argue that we found the perfect balance for Army--perhaps it should not have been restricted quite so much, but I do think it's worthwhile Hero for a dedicated Revelation Angel deck. A very common dominant selection I've seen is SoG/TSC/AotL/Grapes/Three Woes plus 2 evil doms. With the recursion of TSC, that's 6 potential discard opportunities for Army, which is more than enough in my mind to make it worth it.

Reth · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2017, 02:21:55 PM »

Quote from: Ironisaac on July 30, 2017, 01:08:54 PM

Can you post the special ability? I kind of know what it does, but I don't remember everything it does.

Special Ability:
Once per turn, if all your Heroes are Revelation Heroes and you play a good Dominant, you may negate and discard an evil card in a territory or set-aside area. Cannot be negated.

But honestly: Isn't it restricted too much? Wouldn't be restriction to Revelation heroes only be sufficient (or sth. else similar) - not having the good Dom thing there in addition (or territory class in addition)?

kariusvega · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2017, 03:39:05 PM »

i mean i think the idea originally was to use this hero as a finisher or mid game boost to be able to get through tough evil characters/protect forts..

generally speaking i would say Three Woes/Holy Grail/Sword of the Spirit or Golden Censer provide these solutions more effectively. sometimes having a 12/12 guy is great but 24 Elders is simply much better for the same purpose practically speaking. all of that said Angelic Army does not make it into any of my competitive builds due to it being a once per turn ability, having no draw or search component, and being big without the security of being fbtn. if i wanted to neutralize evil cards in my opponents territory or set aside i'm pretty positive the cards i mentioned are more reliable and efficient. so if you are looking for ways to utilize this card, pretty much look at the other cards i mentioned because unfortunately it is not a top tier card. without the power of being able to take out multiple evil cards in one swing, it is much more of a liability than an asset in my opinion

Reth · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2017, 04:24:20 PM »

This is why I mentioned the territory class. This would keep all other restrictions still alive while just removing the battle part. Or has this been also tested and considered to be too strong?

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2017, 04:27:21 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 30, 2017, 04:24:20 PM

This is why I mentioned the territory class. This would keep all other restrictions still alive while just removing the battle part. Or has this been also tested and considered to be too strong?

Territory class would be too strong. The reasons it's bad now is the opportunity cost of attacking with it and being forced to use your dominants at a specific time. Territory class completely removes both of those costs.

Adevine · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2017, 05:08:39 PM »

Quote from: kariusvega on July 30, 2017, 03:39:05 PM

i mean i think the idea originally was to use this hero as a finisher or mid game boost to be able to get through tough evil characters/protect forts..

generally speaking i would say Three Woes/Holy Grail/Sword of the Spirit or Golden Censer provide these solutions more effectively. sometimes having a 12/12 guy is great but 24 Elders is simply much better for the same purpose practically speaking. all of that said Angelic Army does not make it into any of my competitive builds due to it being a once per turn ability, having no draw or search component, and being big without the security of being fbtn. if i wanted to neutralize evil cards in my opponents territory or set aside i'm pretty positive the cards i mentioned are more reliable and efficient. so if you are looking for ways to utilize this card, pretty much look at the other cards i mentioned because unfortunately it is not a top tier card. without the power of being able to take out multiple evil cards in one swing, it is much more of a liability than an asset in my opinion

I tried Angelic Army myself, and it did not work out. As you said, the once per turn was too narrow for me to be able to shut down certain ECs.

Reth · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2017, 05:15:25 PM »

Quote from: Adevine on July 30, 2017, 05:08:39 PM

I tried Angelic Army myself, and it did not work out. As you said, the once per turn was too narrow for me to be able to shut down certain ECs.

But would you propose instead of "once per turn"? Just leaving it out would restrict you even to play your dominant when the SA of Angelic Army is triggered!
Well it also supports Angel of Might in being a revelation angel too - but whether this is worth it ...

For the removing part I also agree to JD - there are better options.

Thanks for your thoughts! Further hints, ideas and input is highly welcome!

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2017, 05:16:23 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 30, 2017, 02:21:55 PM

Special Ability:
Territory Class
~~Once per turn~~, If all your Heroes are Revelation ~~Heroes~~ Angels and you play a good Dominant, you may negate and discard an evil card in a territory or set-aside area. Cannot be negated.

The above I think would be a balanced way of making the card more playable, but I think its good to have niche cards like Disciples of the Lamb, Song of Moses, Twelve Gates, etc., , because they are fun to use, and consequently they add another layer to casual play. Not every card has to be useful!

Adevine · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2017, 05:16:40 PM »

are you looking to create a revelation angel themed deck with this card in it?

Reth · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2017, 05:30:08 PM »

Quote from: Adevine on July 30, 2017, 05:16:40 PM

are you looking to create a revelation angel themed deck with this card in it?

Whom do you mean?

The Guardian · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2017, 06:30:42 PM »

There's also considerations for T2 where I can have 5-6 good dominants and also still have all the evil dominants.

Red Wing · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2017, 11:24:12 PM »

Pretty much all silver offenses should have Gabriel and probably AUTO. That makes Army bad.

Xonathan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:25:22 AM »

I enjoy using Army immensely. My favorite plays are to get the discard off with the new Guardian and TSC. Using AotL gets a double kill. My favorite deck with him is using Covenant of Death with Angels. Any Michael, Angelic Army, and Angel of might are all Cbn. At our southwest regional, Army won me five souls.

Reth · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2017, 01:55:45 AM »

Gabriel (from I starters) and AutO are in here (well while I wondered whether I can use AutO to draw even though I can't exchange him since his SA says and).

Quote from: Xonathan on July 31, 2017, 12:25:22 AM

I enjoy using Army immensely. My favorite plays are to get the discard off with the new Guardian and TSC. Using AotL gets a double kill. My favorite deck with him is using Covenant of Death with Angels. Any Michael, Angelic Army, and Angel of might are all Cbn. At our southwest regional, Army won me five souls.

This sounds really interesting! What did you use for defending then while CwD was active?

kariusvega · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2017, 05:35:31 AM »

Probably CBP stuff only thing is cwd shuts down your best strategies and some aggro builds meaning you are not exactly setting yourself up for success consistently trying to play control

I don't see cwd or angelic army being in decks that make top cut

Basically you are better off playing the BoM deck and getting those lovely blocks against TSA and angelic army all day while they have their cwd up- from a guy who won Regionals with cwd and lost at nationals with cwd

I see both of these cards as cards that may give a newer player challenges more out of frustration than actual effectiveness where as the ones I mentioned will most likely and have been in top cut

Xonathan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2017, 09:52:44 AM »

JD doesn't want anyone using CWD at nats. "Negating characters and restricting playing enhancements in territory" Geez, I wonder what deck type would be hurt against that

kariusvega · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2017, 09:58:58 AM »

Or I'm giving you valuable advice from experience and if you knew what deck I'm playing you would kick yourself for even considering cwd

Xonathan · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:00:26 AM »

Are you saying the Kony Hype was a distraction for another deck?

kariusvega · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:18:18 AM »

Its a great deck its not my fault if you try to tech against me lol

Xonathan · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:19:34 AM »

CWD techs against everyone! Even yourself...

The Guardian · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2017, 10:20:49 AM »

Personally I think CwD is always a great choice in any meta if you build your deck with it in mind.

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Author Topic: Your ideas for utilising Angelic Army (Read 10173 times)

kariusvega

kariusvega

Adevine

TheHobbit13

Adevine

kariusvega

kariusvega

kariusvega