Author Topic: Is HeroLess still a thing?  (Read 1604 times)

Offline MetalPsalmist

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Is HeroLess still a thing?
« on: February 14, 2017, 04:56:27 PM »
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I tried searching for that topic. No dice.
As far as I know, I invented HeroLess back in 2002, but it was way too slow. I took an enormously bloated (90 cards? I didn't know what I was doing) deck to a tournament in Niles. Came in next to last, next time 15th out of 35 players. The lady that ran it thought I was cheating and e-mailed Cactus!  :police:
Anyway, I heard it became a viable archetype after I stopped playing.
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kariusvega

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Re: Is HeroLess still a thing?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 04:57:28 PM »
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check out the 2015 national t1-2p winner deck. it's about as close to heroless gets to win and didn't play Son of God either

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Is HeroLess still a thing?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2017, 05:26:34 PM »
+1
Before moving almost exclusively to T2, ProfA had a successful Heroless deck that was used in the 2007-2008 seasons. You can read about it below:

http://landofredemption.com/?p=2888

Aside from that, and the occasional sighting of Josh, I don't think a true Heroless has surfaced in recent years.

As Vega mentioned, the 2015 T1-2P Nationals winning deck was pretty close to Heroless (only 3 Heroes total I believe).
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

kariusvega

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Re: Is HeroLess still a thing?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 06:15:36 PM »
+1
As far as being a viable archetype, i would say yes it is by far more viable now than ever..

reasons being:

The Roman Jailer (TEC) - great blocker, great hero, CBN play and heal abilities?? On an EC? It's the EC that never dies then turns around and rescues souls!
Saul/Paul - more great battle winning enhancements now than ever to play off of him, not to mention more ways to convert him including Blinding Light
High Priests Palace - Saul/Paul and High Priests Palace were both critical cards in ProfA's heroless build. This allowed him to aocp end game with Paul playing first off of Hidden Treasures to take out all of their ECS after turtling.

John's deck (2015 National Champion) is an entirely different animal. It is not a turtle, it is a relatively fast deck, site locks, and combos heavily utilizing cards released in more recent years. One cool shenanigan is making them draw 2 on your turn with Kindness and Aeropagus, only to auto block them with the Speed Bump lost soul because they have too many cards in hand and have to go straight to discard phase :laugh: It is a very impressive deck, if you do not have the cards I suggest trying it on Lackey. It was a great meta call for the time as few were playing more than 1 answer to sites, if any. Now the meta has shifted. However, I do still find it to be a very fun deck to play with and against, and I do believe it to still be highly competitive and even encouraged him to play it at 2016 Nationals.

Peace
Another heroless or hero lite option is a Peace deck running Gates of Samaria. Even though they are easy to defeat, you can get giant Kings of Israel with Peace for a fight by the numbers toss battle. The Guardian once had a Peace'd out blue King Ahaz at 53/53. This would be even better with new cards like Provoked, from Cloud of Witnesses, with a small NT offense that can be used with The Holy Spirit to recur Peace.

I bet you could do the same thing with Fallen Warriors, especially in multi. Not to mention the potential here with Romans and a hero lite AoG build.

I also really have become so entertained by the new Egyptian additions from Cloud of Witnesses. The Hard Hearted Pharaoh in T1 is brutal if you are playing more great Exodus Egyptians like The Murdering Pharaoh and Egyptian Horsemen. I've converted both of them after blocking with them and discarding 3 off the top of their deck, to rescuing with them and discarding 3 off the top. A herolite build with The Watchful Servant/Egyptian deck discard could easily be viable in this meta.

Do you have lackey? It is a great deck building tool and often before buying from ThreeLionsGaming.com it's nice to be able to test and try different combinations online!

Offline Josh

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Re: Is HeroLess still a thing?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 08:20:29 AM »
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Heroless could probably still work, especially with Blinding Light.  One problem (which has always been a problem for Heroless) is time constraints.  Tournament games are limited to 45 minutes for T1, which often isn't enough to win.  If your Heroless deck is 57-0 in friendly games but it never wins them faster than 1 1/2 hours, that's not a successful Heroless deck.

An additional problem is that T1 decks are playing more defense than they pretty much ever have.  No longer can the Heroless deck have a pretty good idea that they need to overcome 5 ECs named KoT, Sabbath Breaker, Gomer, Uzzah, and Am Slave.

Another problem is as Redemption continues to build more evil themes, it is building more ways to cause problems for a Heroless deck.  Hypocrisy, the recursion of Antediluveans, Magic Charms, Coliseum, etc. all can cause problems for popular Heroless builds.
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