Author Topic: Falling Away or Guardian? (Read 40322 times)

Lozo777 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 16, 2008, 09:03:58 AM »

Well i'm the Monkey King so i should get more respect.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #51 on:** August 16, 2008, 09:06:12 AM »

But I'm the Joker... So why are we being so serious about all this?

Lozo777 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 16, 2008, 09:11:52 AM »

I have a banana gun.

Claude · « **Reply #53 on:** August 16, 2008, 11:08:51 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2008, 08:48:09 AM

You applauded the other guy.... but I just get a slap on the wrist.....

lol. I just dont want others to use it alot hahaha. anyway, yea, we've diverged from the topic already

Colin Michael · « **Reply #54 on:** August 16, 2008, 12:12:17 PM »

This thread is provocative.

SirNobody · « **Reply #55 on:** August 19, 2008, 12:51:55 PM »

Hey,

In multiplayer I'd go with Guardian hands down.

In 2-player I'd probably go with Falling Away despite the fact that it works for me far less often than Guardian does. The reasons being (1) I'm a defensive player, so in general I'd rather have a defensive card at my disposal than an offensive one, (2) when I do need and use Falling Away it always makes a big difference in the game because it's one of the few way to try to get back into a game after a bad start, and (3) I'm more worried about my opponent getting three lost souls from me than I am about my opponent stopping me from getting four lost souls from them.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

JSB23 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 20, 2008, 12:23:24 PM »

That depend upon your deck type, little defense but large offense I would go F.A. because it stalls the opponent for 1 extra turn and if you have a large offense chances are you can get through one more time, on the other side if you play a med- lg defense you should have guardian because it puts less strain on your offense and if you play hero less you need both. The exception is in multi player you have to have guardian for that. Hope this was helpful

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #57 on:** September 22, 2008, 09:32:49 AM »

I never use falling away anymore for a couple reasons.

1. I use larger defenses, so i'm usually not as worried about giving up lost souls
2. I never draw it. I played my brother for like 3 weeks with it in my deck, and every game he would draw gaurdian first, so it would be a wasted card, Unlike gaurdian which has a few other limited uses (discarding confusion of mind)

Egyptian · « **Reply #58 on:** November 10, 2008, 03:56:41 PM »

I like Guardian because there are some abilities that activate by discarding a good dominant.

If you only have Falling Away and opponent gets his Guardian first then Falling Away is useless (except perhaps as a discard for the hand-discard lost soul).

On the other hand if my opponent plays Falling Away before I get my Guardian out, Guardian can still get rid of confusion of mind.

Most of the time it is a 50%-50% chance as to which is better. If I had to choose, I would pick Falling Away for more defensive decks and Guardian for more offensive decks.

But I don't think that Falling Away AND Guardian in the same deck are "twice as good" as either card by itself.

The problem with Lampstand is that you're taking up an artifact slot. You can "temple it" but it's still an artifact slot.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #59 on:** November 10, 2008, 06:47:22 PM »

A big problem with Lampstand is that...well...you can't use your evil doms either. Personally, I'll always put Falling Away in my deck, but there are very few deck configurations in which I will find that Guardian would be useful (like maybe if I'm serious with PoC or something).

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #60 on:** November 10, 2008, 08:53:14 PM »

Quote from: Egyptian on November 10, 2008, 03:56:41 PM

If I had to choose, I would pick Falling Away for more defensive decks and Guardian for more offensive decks.

I think this is good advice.

I also think that there are times when neither FA or Guardian belong in a deck. They are both the least likely dominants to actually "work" as intended in a deck that is built with them (based on this thread.)

And in most decks there are battle winners that have a high probability of winning a LS, or stopping an opponent. And these will work whenever they are drawn. They don't turn useless if drawn late in the game.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #61 on:** November 10, 2008, 09:33:14 PM »

Imo Guardian And Falling away are staples for every deck, and every deck should use them. The mere fact that you have a chance to take an opponents rescued lost soul away or protect your own lost soul makes falling away and Guardian to powerful to leave out of your deck.

Quote from: Prof Underwood on November 10, 2008, 08:53:14 PM

Quote from: Egyptian on November 10, 2008, 03:56:41 PM
If I had to choose, I would pick Falling Away for more defensive decks and Guardian for more offensive decks.
I think this is good advice.

I also think that there are times when neither FA or Guardian belong in a deck.

Only when you dont get to use them in your match.

Gabe · « **Reply #62 on:** November 10, 2008, 10:04:51 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on November 10, 2008, 09:33:14 PM

Imo Guardian And Falling away are staples for every deck...

Let's take a look at the top three decks from Nationals T1-2P published on on Tim Maly's Wildcard site.

11 out of 13 agree with you on GoYS. 13 out of 13 agree with you on Falling Away. We can toss around theory and statistics but results say speak for themselves.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #63 on:** November 10, 2008, 10:26:39 PM »

There you go bringing facts and hard data in and raining on my theoretical and nearly meaningless parade of opinion

Seriously, thanks for digging through all those decks and sharing your findings. I had hoped that perhaps we were getting to the point where we could drop the "staple doms" to 5 (SoG, NJ, AotL, CM, DoN), and yet national success indicates that most likely I was wrong.

Sean · « **Reply #64 on:** November 10, 2008, 10:31:53 PM »

Quote

I had hoped that perhaps we were getting to the point where we could drop the "staple doms" to 5

That require a major change in how people build decks. People are too used to relying on their dominants, and I don't see that changing very much.

Sean

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #65 on:** November 10, 2008, 10:32:50 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on November 10, 2008, 10:26:39 PM

I had hoped that perhaps we were getting to the point where we could drop the "staple doms" to 5 (SoG, NJ, AotL, CM, DoN), ...

If it makes you feel any better, I don't use any of those "staples."

Then again, I only play Booster Draft.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #66 on:** November 10, 2008, 11:07:23 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 10, 2008, 10:32:50 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on November 10, 2008, 10:26:39 PM
I had hoped that perhaps we were getting to the point where we could drop the "staple doms" to 5 (SoG, NJ, AotL, CM, DoN), ...

If it makes you feel any better, I don't use any of those "staples."

Then again, I only play Booster Draft.

Some day I'm going to wrap four SoG and four NJ in a blue wrapper, and pretend to open it in a Booster draft. I figure the look on the other players' faces will be worth the eight dominants.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #67 on:** November 10, 2008, 11:23:27 PM »

I followed Gabe's example and checked out the top 3 Nats decks on Wildcard since 2006 (the game changes enough that I didn't think going further was necessary). It turns out that every single deck used Burial, CM, DoN, FA, AotL, SoG, and NJ. I think that this seems pretty conclusive that all 7 of those must be necessary to succeed at the top level. GoYS was in all but Mierz' deck, and HT was missing in only the 1st and 2nd place decks of 2008.

This means that I have to go back and find a spots for cards like Burial and FA that I had pretty much decided I wasn't going to use in my decks anymore. I've been playing without them for several months, and felt like I wasn't missing them. But I also keep losing to Gabe online, so perhaps that is why

Gabe · « **Reply #68 on:** November 11, 2008, 07:29:38 AM »

Shoot, my secret is out. Now Prof is going to start beating me all the time...

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #69 on:** November 11, 2008, 07:41:04 AM »

I just don't see how anyone could think that Falling Away isn't necessary. $:-\$

The Guardian · « **Reply #70 on:** November 11, 2008, 10:09:13 AM »

If I have to choose one or the other, I go with GoyS though I do try to squeeze in both if I can. I tend to play with decks that are weighted towards defense so I don't give up early free LS very often. Usually by the time my opponent can get past me, they have already drawn their GoyS. Because of my stronger defense, I can usually afford to be patient and if I think I'm going to have trouble recovering from losing a LS, I simply wait to attack until I have GoYS (or sometimes I draw U&T and realize I can get a free one by attacking a certain way.) As others have mentioned, GoyS can still be useful after they play FA since it can get rid of CoM.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #71 on:** November 11, 2008, 09:24:20 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on November 10, 2008, 11:23:27 PM

HT was missing in only the 1st and 2nd place decks of 2008.

Hmmm I thought used Ht? Maybe I forgot to tell Tim.

JSB23 · « **Reply #72 on:** November 11, 2008, 09:27:54 PM »

How should you know what the second place winner had in his deck?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #73 on:** November 12, 2008, 07:32:32 AM »

They usually post their decks, don't they?

JSB23 · « **Reply #74 on:** November 12, 2008, 08:10:43 AM »

I have a feeling he didn't look

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Author Topic: Falling Away or Guardian? (Read 40322 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13