Author Topic: Deck Styles (Read 11236 times)

NotOfThisWorld66 · « **on:** September 07, 2009, 01:29:23 AM »

This will probably sound like a ridiculous question (I'm a beginner at the game of Redemption), but can someone tell me the different styles of deck-building? So far I've heard "heroless" and "site-lockout", but can anyone give me descriptions of some of the styles? Thanks!

-Ethan

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:38:39 AM »

The most rudimentary styles are offense-heavy, defense-heavy, balanced (or Rule of Seven), and trick pony decks. This is pretty self-explanatory and probably not what you're asking, but I'm dang tired and wanted to offer at least something.

NotOfThisWorld66 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:40:42 AM »

Sure this is exactly what I'm asking. Thanks!

Ironica · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2009, 03:42:55 AM »

Thought a pro/con of some deck-building might help you determine which route to take for your playing style:

Balance (Rule Of Seven)

Pro: It's, IMO, the best way for beginners to build their first deck. It will keep your deck to 56 cards and will give you a good range on tactics (since you'll have plenty of forts/sites and arts to back up your peeps)

Con: Sometimes, it's just so hard to get rid of that one or two extra enhancements to get them down to seven (which is why I end up never following the Rule Of Seven

).

Site-Lock

Pro: You have a great potential to completely locking your opponent out so they can not rescue any lost souls. This is a plus especially when you have a slow starter offense (e.g. my site-lock deck's offense is based on Judges Seat/The Lord Fights For You, so I was waiting until I discarded their entire defense until I start attacking (or at least their major defenders)).

Con: It does take up a lot of space in your deck (with one site per lost soul and a couple to a lot of cards dedicated to the site-lock tactic). It is also more damaging for you when you draw a lot of lost souls at the beginning (since you probably won't draw enough sites to put all of them in).

Hero-less

Pro: Massive defense capability with only needing a few good enhancements. Since Saul/Paul is a must in a heroless, when you make him Paul, your enhancements become unstoppable. Since you have a massive defense, you are more equip to defend a lot.

Con: If you opponent nukes the cards you need to convert your villians and get's rid of the couple of heroes you managed to convert, well....let's just hope the game times out with you having more lost souls

.

Offense Heavy

Pro: You can hit them hard over and over and over until they have no defense. You will have plenty of room for powerful offensive heroes/enhancements to annihilate your opponent.

Con: You will have only a few defensive cards. If you go against another Offense Heavy or other techniques that can get past a small defense, you better hope you can get to five before they do.

Speed Deck

Pro: Draw fast and hit them fast. It is a popular, and from what I hear, a dominating tactic. You have cards that let you draw out your deck in a few turns so you can get your battle winners out faster and get SOG/NJ out before your opponent has time to blink.

Con: There are a few cards that hurt speed decks (e.g. Rain Becomes Dust, A-Bom). Also, there has been a new ruling that limits your hand to 16 cards.

Combo (Trick Pony) Deck

Pro: There are a plethora of combos in Redemption that will help you greatly. When you make a deck out of a few of them, you can destroy your opponent. An example would be a Zebulun offense where you try to have very little (if any) cards in your hand so you can go in with Zeb and ignore almost all villains in the game.

Con: If they get rid of a link in the combo or you don't draw it in time, you lose your power and it can get pretty ugly for you (e.g. if they manage to completely get rid of Zebulun, then your whole offense tactic is destroyed).

*edit: I have made another post describing some ways to counter the cons to each deck.

I hoe this helps you determine what type of deck to build. My suggestion would be to try for the Rule Of Seven at first and then either while you build it or after a few games, you will see 1) if you tend to focus on offense or defense and 2) if you like playing quick games or don't mind waiting a bit for the right cards to take your opponent out.

God Bless

Gabe · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2009, 08:34:07 AM »

Ironica did a great job describing the deck types.

Check out www.holdersheroes.com for a lot of great articles on deck types and strategies. They're slightly outdated as most of them were written around the time of Priests but there's still a lot of good information there.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:42:28 AM »

Ironica's description is so good, that this post deserves to be stickied, or at least pointed to in all future discussions when new players ask how to make a deck.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2009, 11:29:16 AM »

I'd like to add in some more deck types.

Civilization/Theme Decks

Pro: Usually, within a certian theme or civilization, there are a lot of cards that work extremely well together. If built right, these decks can be a lot stronger than a similar sized single brigade deck without a theme. This applies to both offense and defense.

Con: While it's not really a true con, each civilization has some type of dominant strategy throughout its cards. Take for example Egyptians, they specialize in deck discarding. You just have to know what strategy they use before building a deck with them. Now for a real con, they can sometimes be weak to other strategies, or not mesh well with others. Some examples: Demon defenses can get hurt pretty bad by Three Nails, and Red WC Banding offenses can sometimes destroy your own phillistine defense if you aren't careful.

Defense Heavy

Pro: There are more defense heavy strategies than just Site Lockout. While Lockouts seem to be some of the most effective, there are plenty of others that can be powerful. Sometimes you can just use a really big civilization defense as described above, or it can have some unique strategy like Paralysis.

Con: These decks can sometimes be a good bit harder to build and play than decks such as Site Lockout, especially if it's a strategy like Paralysis. You'll have to tweak these decks just like any other, so play them, find if they have any weaknesses, and then try to counter that for next time.

Red · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2009, 12:44:56 PM »

i'll add some of these

FBTN:decks use chacters like ira moses the stong angel adino+spear samuth beniah etc etc con:certain artafacts are killer to the deck as well as cbn enhacments.

Ironica · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:43:51 PM »

Here are the counters to the con of each deck posted above:

Balance (Rule Of Seven)

Counter To Con: When stuck trying to figure out which card to get rid between two great cards, do one of two things 1) look at ALL the cards you have and see if one of the two cards special is already in your deck enough times or if one card helps the tactic of your deck more than another or 2) flip a coin.

Site-Lock

Counter To Con: Three ways. 1) make sure you have characters/artifacts/enhancements that will either get your sites out (e.g. Land Purchase/Building Egypt) or are quick ways to prevent lost souls from being rescued (Burial Shroud/Uzzah with an artifact). 2) Learn different technique to shuffle

3) Realize that everyone has bad draws and hope that you will get some sites soon or find another way to enjoy the came (just finished playing two games on RTS where I only had one defender per game)

Hero-Less

Counter To Con: Make sure you have enough ways to convert your villains and have a few healing abilities to keep the heroes you have (e.g. Brass Serpent)

Offense Heavy

Counter To Con: The few defenders you have should be stand-alone villains (e.g. King Of Tyris/Nero/Uzzah+artifact) so that you will be able to stop a lot of regular rescue attempts.

Speed

Counter To Con: As I've been hearing (and just experienced), speed is just slowed down a little but is still fast. Add a couple of counters to the cards that hurt speed (e.g. DON will take care of Rain Becomes Dust, an enhancements that will get rid of evil cards in your territory).

Combo

Counter To Con: Depending on your combo, the best way is to make sure you have a few ways to get the cards back (e.g. have Chariots Of Fire/David's Harp to try and keep Zebulun out of your discard pile). Look at your combo, pretend your opponent has discarded the card you need to pull it off, and then find ways to either prevent that or to get it back. The best combos are the ones that you can keep bringing back.

Ironica · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:55:47 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on September 07, 2009, 09:42:28 AM

Ironica's description is so good, that this post deserves to be stickied, or at least pointed to in all future discussions when new players ask how to make a deck.

Thanks

. Deck building is my favorite thing to do in redemption (though, I'm not as good as a lot of people (though I just play for fun and I never expect to be on the top table at Natz)). Speaking of which, I need to build the deck for the youth that I just got them hook on

.

NotOfThisWorld66 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:06:44 PM »

Ironica's description is top-class. Thanks for the advice, Ironica! It helps very very much! PS Is there a way to run RTS on a Mac?

Gabe · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2009, 07:24:50 PM »

Quote from: NotOfThisWorld66 on September 07, 2009, 04:06:44 PM

PS Is there a way to run RTS on a Mac?

Only if you use an emulator or dual boot into Windows.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2009, 08:30:41 PM »

Don't forget to include the almighty Defenseless deck. No deck listiing would be complete without this archetype. Be forewarned that this deck style is addictive and will allow you to be National Champ in no time.
I'm sorry guys......I just had to let the cat outta the bag. I just couldn't bear letting you keep NotW66 in the dark about the most dominant archetype around. Happy deck building.

Godspeed,
Mike

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2009, 08:33:07 PM »

My epic characterless deck gets no respect. It has only lost ONE game so far, ONE.

Ironica · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:04:31 PM »

Quote from: 777Godspeed on September 07, 2009, 08:30:41 PM

Don't forget to include the almighty Defenseless deck.

As you wish

.

Defenseless Deck

Pro: You never have to worry about not having the heroes to make a rescue attempt because that will be the vast majority of your deck. You will be able to hit them fast and hard. Almost every turn, you will be able to attack your opponent and they won't get a chance to get their defense up in time because you keep knocking their foundation down

. Plus, since you have no defense, you will not have to worry about all those pesky good enhancements (since they won't get a chance to play them

) and you won't have to worry about having your own defense played against you (since you don't have any

).

Con: You have no defense. Your opponent heroes will be able to just take a nice peaceful walk to all of your lost souls (seeing your opponents heroes frolicking to your territory is not a pretty sight).

Counter To Con: Sites and artifacts are your friends. Use sites to slow them down and artifacts to stop them (e.g. Burial Shroud/Unholy Writ). Blend in some speed in your offense to be able to play quickly and get your SOG/NJ fast so you could win before they have a chance.

I don't remember who first came up with it but it also needs to be mentioned:

Enhancement-less Deck

Pro: You have nothing but pure power in your deck. You never have to worry about not fighting because you don't have the right enhancements because you don't have any. You could also easily pull off the Zebulun combo with this deck because the only thing you would need to keep in your hand is your dominates.

Con: You have no way to beef up your characters and no way but the characters themselves to get rid of your opponents peeps. If they some how get around your numbers, then you have nothing to back them up.

Counter To Con: Use heroes/villains that can either stand alone (e.g. King Of Tyris/Nero), use combos that doesn't require enhancements (Uzzah+artifact, Trembling Demon), and for offense, you could use Zebulun tactic (as mentioned above) and the huge Fight By The Numbers band. Artifacts are also your friend (e.g. Plagued With Disease to lower the defense of your opponents heroes, Unholy Writ/Go Into Captivity to get rid of their hero, Ark Of The Covenant/30 Pieces Of Silver to get rid of your opponents peeps no matter the battle outcome). There are plenty of great artifacts that will help you out.

Characterless Deck

Pro: Your deck will be filled with all the best enhancements regardless of brigade. You have the potential to annihilate your opponent no matter what they have. You can taunt them with your hand and make them worry about coming in after you.

Con: Potential is all ya got. Eventually, even your bluffing will fail you and they will walk all over you

Counter To Con: As the saying goes, win by a forfeit! When your opponent least expects it, throw one or two at their eyes. If they can't see, they can't play

.

NotOfThisWorld66 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2009, 10:36:24 PM »

Quote

It has only lost ONE game so far. ONE.

Out of how many games?

Thanks for all the deck styles and strategies. My card collection is horrible-I only have one Lost Soul with a special affect, and it is the Site-Removal Lost Soul. I also need more sites. And fortresses. Otherwise I might be ok. And...I confess I do not have New Jerusalem. Character-wise I'm ok, but everything else (with the exception of enhancements

), needs work in my deck. Since I don't really have access to RTS right now, all I have is my real collection which is in need of some major additions.

-Ethan

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2009, 11:01:36 PM »

Don't forget my favorite. Wreck-a-deck it is where you make your opponent discard cards from hand and deck so fun seeing sog down the drain lol

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:02:48 PM »

by the way Ironica. You never ever ever use BS in a decfenseless unless something has gone horribly bad

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:05:04 PM »

Quote from: xCaLeBx on October 16, 2009, 03:02:48 PM

by the way Ironica. You never ever ever use BS in a heroeless unless something has gone horriblybad

That's not true, Burial Shroud works well in a heroless. Because you don't make RAs when you are blocking most of the time, Burial Shroud has very little cost. It is a great way to stall for 2 turns while Paul gets set aside. For site Heroless decks, it is great for supplementing the defense. I would actually say B.Shr. works best in a heroless.

Ironica · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:23:31 PM »

Quote from: xCaLeBx on October 16, 2009, 03:02:48 PM

by the way Ironica. You never ever ever use BS in a heroeless unless something has gone horriblybad

Where did I say you would?

Quote from: Ironica

Hero-less

Pro: Massive defense capability with only needing a few good enhancements. Since Saul/Paul is a must in a heroless, when you make him Paul, your enhancements become unstoppable. Since you have a massive defense, you are more equip to defend a lot.

Con: If you opponent nukes the cards you need to convert your villians and get's rid of the couple of heroes you managed to convert, well....let's just hope the game times out with you having more lost souls .

Counter To Con: Make sure you have enough ways to convert your villains and have a few healing abilities to keep the heroes you have (e.g. Brass Serpent)

ebridge · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:36:19 PM »

Did anyone mention the Garden Tomb deck yet? Try to keep your opponent from having more than 2 ECs of the same color out at one time, and your Garden Tomb heroes waltz right in. (I don't like this strategy, but it has been proven to be a strong theme.)

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:27:52 PM »

This should be stickied.

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2009, 07:47:22 PM »

I fail guys I meant defenseless

sorry about that edited it

Ironica · « **Reply #23 on:** October 16, 2009, 08:37:55 PM »

Quote from: ebridge on October 16, 2009, 03:36:19 PM

Did anyone mention the Garden Tomb deck yet? Try to keep your opponent from having more than 2 ECs of the same color out at one time, and your Garden Tomb heroes waltz right in. (I don't like this strategy, but it has been proven to be a strong theme.)

TGT is not a deck style but a deck strategy. For example, the winning Natz deck was a Z-temp/TGT deck but it's style was defense-lite (which I forgot to mention in my original post..opps)

stefferweffer · « **Reply #24 on:** October 16, 2009, 09:51:37 PM »

Guess its all just semantics, but I really don't see the difference in a deck "style" and a deck "strategy". How is site lockout a deck style but garden tomb is deck strategy? How is speed a style but not a strategy? Is every 50 card deck a speed deck because it is 50 cards? Not at all. 50 card decks just have better odds of getting you what you need, right? Site lockout's strategy is that the opponent can't rescue lost souls fast enough, but isn't that also its "style"? Garden Tomb's style (and strategy) is that with enough artifacts and other things its Garden Tomb heroes will be able to pre-ignore. Garden Tomb is not exclusively defense lite, because you can make your defense as large as you'd like. I guess I'd just like to hear the distinction between a deck style and a deck strategy. Thanks.

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Author Topic: Deck Styles (Read 11236 times)

NotOfThisWorld66

NotOfThisWorld66

Ironica

Lamborghini_diablo

Ironica

Ironica

NotOfThisWorld66

Rawrlolsauce!

Ironica

NotOfThisWorld66

Ironica

ebridge

Ironica