Cactus Game Design Message Boards

50 Cards
Lost souls: 7
Remnant
Covet
Exiles
Hunter
Distressed
Darkness
Prosperity

Son of God
The Second Coming
Angel of the Lord
A New Beginning
Three Woes
Destruction of Nehushtan (PoC)
Christian Martyr

Noah’s Ark
Storehouse
Sheol
Babel
Tree of Knowledge

Joseph’s Silver Cup
Book of the Covenant
Pitch and Gopher Wood
Covenant of Prayer
The Rainbow

Forbidden Fruit
Two By Two

Noah
Noah’s Wife
Shem
Shem’s Wife
Ham
Ham’s Wife
Japheth
Japheth’s Wife

Abraham’s Descendant
Faith Among Corruption
Faith of Noah
Fatih of Sarah
Bless the Nations

Nebuchadnezzar
Nergalsharezer
Babylonain Siege Army
The Babylonian Merchants
Conjurers

Belshazzar’s Banquet
Seized By Babylon
Swift Horses
Betrayal
The Wages of Sin
Scattered

Reserve:
The Angel of the Winds
You Will Remain
Covenant with Noah
Covenant of Eden
Seven Years of Plenty
The Flood
Anthropophobia
Behemoth
The Serpent
Dream

I figure that Flood is pretty well understood*, so I'm not going to dive too deep into the mechanics of the deck. That said, I am going to look at one thing in particular: A New Beginning.

It's notable that Flood decks took third, fourth, and fifth (and to be honest, I did not deserve to place above Jay). That said, of those three flood decks, I was the only one that ran ANB. JD had Jonah in his deck, breaking the unity (though he still ran Rainbow), and Jay opted for a Strife/Rehoboam combo as his flex dominant. While I understand that dominant slots are extremely tight, to my mind ANB is absolutely worth the slot.
Flood survivors do one thing extraordinarily well: set up. I can't speak for the others, but my deck was built around the idea that I wanted to get both Noah and Ark on turn one of every game. This is actually fairly consistent - there are nine different cards (including souls) in the main deck that represent Noah and seven that represent Ark, and most of those have value even after the character is found. This lets me get rolling immediately.
That said, the per-turn cards that a Flood deck gains isn't actually that high. There isn't actually any drawing built into the offense, just Noah's exchange and Japheth's "look and take". Fast decks, especially something like Throne, can catch up fairly quickly. That's where ANB comes in.
The moment your opponent is actually set up, you drop ANB. You know how good going first is? Drop it during your draw phase to not only go first, but also draw first. An eleven card hand with nothing on your opponent's board is pretty solid. Have Pitch and Gopher Wood on Ark, and a hero with two turns left? It ticks down to one in upkeep phase, you play ANB, everything's shuffled, you restart upkeep, the hero ticks down to 0 and you get them back. ANB is the reason that this deck beats Throne.
I had someone at Nats compare this deck to this scene. I don't actually watch the show, but I agree. It nukes the board and rebuilds almost instantly.

That's not to say that I think the deck is perfect. I've already made a couple changes (not shown here) that I was impressed with in other decks. I took out Egypt for Sheol just before Nats, and while Sheol is absolutely necessary I don't think that was the correct cut since there were a few times that I had trouble finding Ark. I think I need one more Ark tutor in reserve (possibly 2x2) so that after 7 Years gets shuffled into my deck I still have a reserve card to access it, instead of relying on drawing a tutor (especially since Japheth's speed only works while you control Ark!).

*It's come to my attention that may not be the case. If you'd like a brief explanation of how the offense functions, check out my post HERE.

Top Cut
At this point it was apparent that I'd made top cut. I'd been sitting in the ninth chair for the seventh game and won 5-1. That said, JD (who was three seats below me) got a 5-0 from a concede for his bid for top cut. When the results went up I was seventh seed, and he was eighth. This was very exciting for me - I'd expected to do very well in T22P but had said that morning that I'd be happy to finish in the top half of T12P.
My stepbrother Caleb had been doing very well all day, having lost only one game all day (to Jay). He was second seed.

Game 8: Caleb Beers
Caleb and I had joked on the way there that morning that we would either play round 1 or the final round. Well, since this was round one of Top Cut, we both knew that it would be final round for one of us. I don't doubt that if he had won this game he'd have placed top three, but I wasn't about to throw the game for it. The same thing that happens almost every game between us happened here - I got Merchants and Babel turn one, in addition to Noah and Ark. In the end, I won 5-3 and I'm still not sure he's forgiven me for it.

Game 9: Josh Potratz
Josh had advanced on a timeout tie with Justin, 'winning' because he had a higher seed. The same thing happened here - on his last turn with timeout we told the judge that he'd won (since it was impossible for him to lose) but played out the turn anyway to see what would happen. I held him off, and when we laid our cards down it was apparent I would have made it through for the win next turn. Felt pretty bad. I 'lost' a timeout tie 4-4, although it was a well-played game.

Game 10: JD Cunningham
The rematch for third.
This was a somewhat closer game than the first. The turn after I ANB'd my Shem's Wife got sent to Ark, and on his turn after that I sent his Noah, Shem, Japheth, and Japheth's Wife to his. I knew that I had to win before they came back, but I got droughted. With my soul gen sitting in Ark (and his Storehouse protecting his deck by the time she came back) I had to rely on him drawing one, which he never did. I played Second Coming for Son of God before he had a soul, allowing him to shuffle my Bab Siege Army (removing the other bab for Nergal to have CBN stuff), although since he attacked with Ham's Wife for initiative and my only ECs were Nergal and Behemoth he could have had the same effect by returning it with Shem's Wife, which I'm sure wasn't lost on him. All my misplay did was make it easier. I lost 4-5, to get 4th place.

All in all, I'm really proud of how well I did. Obviously it's a good deck (as evidenced by the fact that three of the top five players ran something very similar), but getting a compliment from JD about how it was apparent I'd spent time with it to know all the ins and outs was very encouraging.
Flood is good.


EDIT: Also, I found out in the very last game against JD that "card in territory" doesn't include face down artifacts. I'd been under the impression that it did, but apparently it either specifically needs to target face down artifacts, artifact piles, or all cards in territory. So.... whoops. Sorry to everyone that I've played T1 against in the last year and a half where I've placed down a face down artifact then exchanged it with Noah. I'm apparently a filthy cheater.

This may be one of the most intelligent flood decks I’ve seen. Besides Johns deck this was the most impressive deck I saw all day and our last game of top cut was really down to the draw.. John’s last rescue in our game was thanks to majestic heavens. May be worth the spot.

It’s definitely worth mentioning Sheol and Babel cost you in our games because they counted as evil cards.

Very well played. Honestly an honor .. Thanks for the legendary times 🙏🏻🌊🛳🕊🌈

I've been looking for the alternative flood survivors build that runs tree of knowledge and forbidden fruit instead of faith, and I have finally found it. I REALLY dig this list, although I don't like running 5 Evil Characters (I did run 10 between deck and reserve after all). I really find this interesting, as JD and I were playing The Flood centric lists, while you focus more on set-up speed and ANB (which I ran up until Nationals). I'm honestly unsure which is better, and I guess not running Bab Merchants might have cost me Nationals, considering you and JD both placed higher than I did. I do really enjoy the fact that Flood Survivors did so well this nationals, and am incredibly glad that it isn't an "unfair" deck.

Forbidden Fruit is probably one of the best setup cards for this deck. In fact, I think one of the mistakes in this list is that there's only one Ark tutor in reserve for it to target (7 Years), since there were definitely times that I got FF back after ANB but couldn't use it to get Ark back.
I only played the Flood three times at Nats, I think. It's absolutely an incredible card, but most of the time I was attacking with Shem+Japheth so didn't get initiative for it, and if I swing with Ham or one of the wives everyone knows what's coming. That said, most ways I have to get it from reserve lets my opponent know I have it, which is great for head games.
Bab Merchants off Darkness before the first turn is incredible. I think that alone won me at least two games.
There were a couple times that I wished I had one more evil character. Only a couple times, though - the 6.5 that I ran were generally sufficient. Noah can grab big important ones like Nergal, Nebby, and Merchants back from discard at the low low cost of a crimson enhancement (or, yaknow, a less important character), and I found that with how quickly I was able to set up I got a lot of blocks by my opponents assuming I had as few defensive options as they had offensive ones.

Quote from: kariusvega on August 07, 2019, 08:42:52 AM

This may be one of the most intelligent flood decks I’ve seen. Besides Johns deck this was the most impressive deck I saw all day and our last game of top cut was really down to the draw.. John’s last rescue in our game was thanks to majestic heavens. May be worth the spot.

It’s definitely worth mentioning Sheol and Babel cost you in our games because they counted as evil cards.

Very well played. Honestly an honor .. Thanks for the legendary times

...

Some additional thoughts..

Covenant with Adam is a must have for flood..I cut it last minute and needed it

The king rehoboam flood combo is insane when you pull it off

Falling away women’s may have won you nationals
I’d cut either Anb or destruction for it in this list- both seem slightly redundant

Some other cards I’d really like to see your take on in here are
Offering your son- this card gets you straight to so much good stuff..
With AnB hopper seems like an auto include

Did you consider endless treasures?
Flying scroll has so much value

I misplayed wanderer in my game against John but I think it may be worth the prosperity slot.. it’s such a handy soul..

Jay sold me on playing Faith in this deck

Again.. really well done would love to hear your thoughts on these. Jay and I shared a lot of strategies to develop our flood lists over a few years time now

I actually had Heavens in the list before Storehouse was available. Perhaps it should go back, although most games (obviously not ours ) Shem's Wife has been all the soul gen I need.
Sheol and Babel did cost me in our games, but only in our games. I think they're still definitely worth the slot, and while dropping Babel back down after the ANB may not have been worth it (since you only really had a couple brigades and Noah's Wife anyway), I still think Sheol was correct.
Covenant with Adam is definitely a consideration. I feel like half of my battles are won by big numbers and negates, so I may try to find room for it.
Rehoboam is fun, although he breaks the Bab unity. Still worth thinking about, I may try it.

I've put a lot of thought into Falling Away since Nats, especially since it seemed like I was the only person in top cut who wasn't running it. I do think that adding it to this deck in a vacuum would have won me Nats (or at least gotten me to second... John's CWD shuts this deck down hard), but my conclusion was that slotting it in over either of the flex doms wouldn't have gotten me to top cut in the first place. I went into a fair bit of detail on why I think ANB is correct in this list in the original post. I suppose it could be DoN, but beyond that my only artifact control is Siege Army and possibly Abe's Descendant for curses. DoN is vital for Signet Rings, Golden Calves, and even Charms when I don't have Babel to stop Profane Daughters. There may be a consideration to slot it in over Martyr, but I think that what would usually be the more flexible dominant slots are too important for this deck.

I definitely slept on Offering Your Son this year. I've actually added it since Nats (along with Great Fish, since your blocks with Nebby searching for it impressed me so much).
Hopper and Faith were both in the 56 card version, but were cut to get down to 50. I think cutting Hopper there was maybe a bit redundant, but going first is great and for the most part I haven't had any trouble with 43 instead of 42. I do think that Faith may be correct (since it can tutor both Noah and Ark), especially since I had some trouble after cutting an Ark tutor right before Nats.

I thought about Endless Treasures, but again, I couldn't find a place for it. The deck and reserve are both so tight. There may be a consideration to slot it in over Cup, with Scroll (and possibly one more) in reserve.

I've been very happy with how Prosperity has worked for me. There are a few games where I get it on turn 1 and don't use it, but often I can discard a tutor if I already have what it searches for. Besides, who needs Wanderer when you have Covet?

Really looking forward to seeing the deck statistics when Gabe finds time between work, family and new set work. I think Women's falling away was in half? of the TopCut decks. (Caleb is running CoW for CtB as am I. Greg doesn't have either, I can't remember which I saw from Josiah, but I feel like it was CoW.

Faith and Offering your Son are fantastic cards, but I wonder how much set-up/utility is too much in a deck like this

I was using offering your son to abuse endless treasures then realized how many times it should be getting the amazing covenants covenant of Adam being a recurring negate and auto winner as an art in many cases..

Great analysis guys 💯love this kind of conversation 😇

Tree of Knowledge gets serpent too.

...right. I swear I knew that  (especially since I did it a couple times at Nats ) That said, I often shuffle it with Noah and it usually just grabs Fruit back for more looks/enhancements.

Fire Foxes was another casualty of the 56 -> 50 cut, though one that I could definitely see trying to squeeze back in.

Honestly, right before Nats started Sheol was almost the 51st. It wasn't in the initial list, but I was glad to have it during the tournament. If I'd decided to go 51 there it would have been the above list with an Egypt (since it can grab Ark, Storehouse, and Babel, and is another great target for Noah). Now? I've already made a couple edits, but haven't really tested them yet. I did slot Egypt back in, but I think Faith is a better add. We'll see where I end up.

Silver Cup represents an extra card per turn before battle. It's also one of the only arts I have for main pile when Book isn't available (and Faith of Noah can search for it, since it's a Genesis artifact). The covenants are either single use (YWR and CoP) or I'd prefer to use the enhancement side (Eden, Noah after I've got my survivors), so having something I'm happy to leave up every turn for value is great. The fact that it's basically the same ability as Japheth meant that I got to look at a lot of my cards every turn and take the best ones. It may still be one of the earlier cuts, but I think it's still very solid even without the soul gen.