Author Topic: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.  (Read 2911 times)

Offline Red

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Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« on: July 11, 2017, 09:58:13 AM »
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Souls:
Gain
Imitate
Humble
Awake
Dull
Lawless
Forsaken

Doms:
Son of God
The Second Coming
Guardian
Three Woes
Angel
Falling Away
Christian Martyr

Forts/Sites:
The Heavenly Temple
The Ends of the Earth

Artifacts/Covenants:
Ark of the Covenant
The Great White Throne
Eternal Covenant
You Will Remain
Covenant with Gabe. (Cov of Prayer)

DAC/E
Fire Foxes
Fifth Bowl of Wrath
Fifth Seal/Justice Seekers
Second Seal/War

Heroes:
Angels of Wrath
Angel from the Sun
Michael, The Archangel
The Strong Angel (ROJ)
Justin Martyr
Polycarp
The Woman With Child
Paul
Priests of Christ (ROJ)
The Twenty Four Elders

Good Enhancements:
Sword of the Spirit
Blood of the Lamb
Overcome!
First Fruits
Day of Fury

Evil Characters:
Goliath
Philly Armorbearer
The Chief Priests
The Deceiver
Lot's Wife
Outsiders (Black/Gold)

Evil Enhancements:
Abandonment
Devourer
Plot to Kill
Stone of Thebez

Reserve:
John, the Apocalyptist
Fourth Bowl of Wrath
Third Bowl of Wrath
Word of their Testimony
Every Man's Sword
Ishy's Sword
Disbelieving Sadducees
High Priest Ananias (ROJ)
Uzzah
Foreign Wives

This deck's strategy is to attack with the best option you have. The offense is fairly strong. The defense is built to chump block in any way it can. The defense is a tad too light and the offense lacks any recursion, which strongly hurts in a negate and add to battle centric meta. It placed solely due to dumb luck, but hey, it's fun when it works and it really didn't work throughout the tournament. Let me know what you think and what you would have changed!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 12:22:30 PM by Red »
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 10:07:48 AM »
+3
Only 6 Lost Souls eh?  ::)
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 11:22:27 AM »
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He did say it wasn't that excellent...

Offline Josh

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 11:51:44 AM »
+2
Only 6 Lost Souls eh?  ::)

How do you think it got 2nd...?

;)

The big change I'd personally do is replace Devourer with Seized By Rioters. 
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 12:00:33 PM »
+1
Joking aside, I think it's one artifact too heavy. Having 10 Heroes, I'm not sure Great White Throne is optimal. I'd probably remove that and add the Seized by Rioters that jmhartz recommended.
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Offline Red

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 12:23:37 PM »
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Joking aside, I think it's one artifact too heavy. Having 10 Heroes, I'm not sure Great White Throne is optimal. I'd probably remove that and add the Seized by Rioters that jmhartz recommended.
Fixed the souls. I would probably agree on the artifact thing. However, Great white throne is not what I'd cut. I prefer consistency to power usually.
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Offline Red Wing

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 12:27:32 PM »
+2
Then cut Ark of the Covenant
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Offline Red

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 12:58:26 PM »
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Then cut Ark of the Covenant
In the revised versions of the list I cut that
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 01:23:06 PM »
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Fair enough--to me it seemed like with 10 Heroes, using both Great White Throne and Eternal Covenant was overkill. I haven't used Ark much, but it did seem to fit with your deck going somewhat slim on good battle winners (i.e. you can't afford to have too many negated).
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Offline Red

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 01:24:15 PM »
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Fair enough--to me it seemed like with 10 Heroes, using both Great White Throne and Eternal Covenant was overkill. I haven't used Ark much, but it did seem to fit with your deck going somewhat slim on good battle winners (i.e. you can't afford to have too many negated).
That's pretty much the problem I've been having. It's why I ultimately ended up with 5 arts.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 04:17:40 PM »
+1
I've been running Eternal Covenant in Reserve in case of emergency and even then I haven't ever really used it (and I use fewer Heroes than you).

While I'd personally love to run Ark (purely for the anti-curse aspect), I would take that out as well.

If the Great White Throne is there mostly to get around banding chains, you're probably better off running Wool Fleece (CoW), but I don't think either is needed either if you trim down unneeded Heroes and add more battlewinners.

First Fruits basically means you're getting blocked by Foreign Wives, and I don't like that. I'd rather use Consider the Lilies to get Overcome!.

If I was using black, I'd definitely add Demetrius and Seized by Rioters. It's too good to not use.

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 06:32:50 PM »
+1
I've been running Eternal Covenant in Reserve in case of emergency and even then I haven't ever really used it (and I use fewer Heroes than you).

While I'd personally love to run Ark (purely for the anti-curse aspect), I would take that out as well.

If the Great White Throne is there mostly to get around banding chains, you're probably better off running Wool Fleece (CoW), but I don't think either is needed either if you trim down unneeded Heroes and add more battlewinners.

First Fruits basically means you're getting blocked by Foreign Wives, and I don't like that. I'd rather use Consider the Lilies to get Overcome!.

If I was using black, I'd definitely add Demetrius and Seized by Rioters. It's too good to not use.
The bolded makes me cringe. I like adding battlewinners, but no hero is ever unneeded in my opinion. Great white throne is a consistency booster more than a banding chain trimmer. First fruits is certainly a concession to a throne HEAVY meta game. The tournament had at least FIVE throne decks in a field of 22. I'm certainly seeing area specific philosophy in the cuts suggested. EC vs NC is almost certainly becoming consistency vs power. All of this being said, if I tweaked this deck, I would cut heavenly temple/ark and add more evil.
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Offline Red Wing

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 06:47:46 PM »
+1
I've been running Eternal Covenant in Reserve in case of emergency and even then I haven't ever really used it (and I use fewer Heroes than you).

While I'd personally love to run Ark (purely for the anti-curse aspect), I would take that out as well.

If the Great White Throne is there mostly to get around banding chains, you're probably better off running Wool Fleece (CoW), but I don't think either is needed either if you trim down unneeded Heroes and add more battlewinners.

First Fruits basically means you're getting blocked by Foreign Wives, and I don't like that. I'd rather use Consider the Lilies to get Overcome!.

If I was using black, I'd definitely add Demetrius and Seized by Rioters. It's too good to not use.
The bolded makes me cringe. I like adding battlewinners, but no hero is ever unneeded in my opinion. Great white throne is a consistency booster more than a banding chain trimmer. First fruits is certainly a concession to a throne HEAVY meta game. The tournament had at least FIVE throne decks in a field of 22. I'm certainly seeing area specific philosophy in the cuts suggested. EC vs NC is almost certainly becoming consistency vs power. All of this being said, if I tweaked this deck, I would cut heavenly temple/ark and add more evil.
I agree that running at least 10 Heroes is almost always better in an aggro/offensive heavy/speed deck. That being said, because of cards like Eternal Covenant, Patmos, Love Righteousness, and Music Leader, there are reasons to go lower.
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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2017, 01:02:20 PM »
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Changes I think I'd make after reflection on the comments.

Heavenly Temple
Devourer
Eternal Covenant
Great White Throne
Paul
Ark of the Covenant

For

The Two Witnesses
Patmos
Siezed By Rioters
Demetrius the Silversmith
I Am Creator
The Four Living Creatures.

Reserve
Disbelieving Sadducees for Resurrection of Martyrs

Several people advocated a switch to using less heroes and an additional enhancement, others suggested adding more evil and switching devourer for seized. I decided to try making some changes that would improve the consistency of the offense and defense and add more power. Patmos was a fairly good idea that I recently had. Patmos allows me to grab a strong t1 attack option if I had it. I am Creator also does that. Considering I wanted it over great white throne at least one game at regionals made me make the switch. My biggest problem at regionals was lack of evil characters so I added one more. Two Witnesses went in as a counter to bands and as a character I could d2 with, as well as the fact he plays more of my deck than Paul does. FLC is a concession to a Pharisee heavy meta game, as well as being an angel that can throw down some overcome action.

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2017, 01:25:09 PM »
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The Great White Throne is way more useful than I am Creator. Most of the time when you get I am creator you're going to have heroes. You have to get it early and have no evil in your discard pile for it to be better. On the other hand GWT is can be used early and later on. You could maybe justify it if you had eternal inheritance or relied on covenants somehow.

And for your black you might want to figure out a way to include Simon the Magician with all the N.T offenses running around. And I would pull Ananias out of your reserve into deck because he's that good.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 01:32:00 PM by TheHobbit »

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2017, 01:32:34 PM »
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The Great White Throne is way more useful than I am Creator. Most of the time when you get I am creator you're going to have heroes. You have to get it early and have no evil in your discard pile for it to be better. On the other hand GWT is can be used early and later on. You could maybe justify it if you had eternal inheritance or relied on covenants somehow.
I generally agree with this sentiment. However, given testing, I don't need GWT t2-5, I need it t1, in which case, IaC is stronger.
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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2017, 02:07:33 PM »
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I think that being useful and need are different things and in t2-t5 you can still benefit from extra heroes. Drawing the card out of 8 or 11 (or more if you don't get heroes) is just a lot of pressure to put on one card when slots are so valuable. Utility is pretty much the way to go in type 1 but if you have found it useful awesome. It would be sweet if you could fit eternal inheritance in the deck with 4 covenants.

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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 09:26:33 PM »
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If you're already running Demetrius, Shrine is pretty nice to reset Woes and Patmos.
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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 10:03:02 PM »
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If you're already running Demetrius, Shrine is pretty nice to reset Woes and Patmos.

We were initially concerned about the potential for Shrine and Woes but during testing we actually found that typically the cost of losing it (and not knowing when it would come back) wasn't worth the potential reward of being able to re-use it in a future battle.

Now in a straight Greek defense, that cost is mitigated somewhat since you aren't slowing your deck down, but it's still such a powerful card to take off your side of the table.
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Re: Excellency that isn't that excellent. 2nd Place EC Regs.
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2017, 10:08:21 PM »
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If you're already running Demetrius, Shrine is pretty nice to reset Woes and Patmos.

We were initially concerned about the potential for Shrine and Woes but during testing we actually found that typically the cost of losing it (and not knowing when it would come back) wasn't worth the potential reward of being able to re-use it in a future battle.

Now in a straight Greek defense, that cost is mitigated somewhat since you aren't slowing your deck down, but it's still such a powerful card to take off your side of the table.

It's nice when you shrine in reserve so you can pull it out and shuffle woes after you've decked so you know you're drawing it right back.

 


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