Author Topic: Heroless 2012  (Read 4170 times)

Offline Professoralstad

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Heroless 2012
« on: August 16, 2012, 09:23:06 PM »
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I figured since I'm on a deck posting binge I might as well go for it. I participated in the Ironman tournament just for fun at Nationals, and wanted to use Heroless, just for kicks. I had no idea it would do so well. It went 6-0-1, and if I had played more games I might have actually won Ironman (I stopped playing Ironman games after Friday afternoon as Matt and I were working on our TEAMS decks that night). I have also used very similar versions of this deck in ROOT and other online games, and I took third at a local tournament (beating the eventual winner, but losing to second place). I beat a couple versions of "the Deck" during Ironman, as well as the T1-2P champion.

For those who don't know the history of Heroless, it came on the scene in the 06-07 season when Josh Kopp created a deck with no Heroes. I loved the idea and ran with it, and Heroless reached its peak in the 2007 season, netting me two local wins, a district, and 2nd place at NC regionals. I took a hiatus from the game for awhile after that season, as I was busy with college as well as dating my new girlfriend (who is now my wife). When I returned in early 2009, I brought an updated Heroless to NC Regionals, and it lost the first two games. I shelved it for awhile, but with the realease of every new set, I update it somewhat and try it out a few times. The past two seasons I have been a primarily T2 player so I rarely get to use it in tournaments anymore, but I still love playing it. This is probably the 6th or 7th rendition of "The Heroless of the North" (named so as to differentiate Josh Kopp's Heroless) since its inception.

Cards 77

Lost Souls (10)
Cannot be Prevented
Wanderer
*/4 Only
NT Only
Color Guard
Deck Discard
Site Discard
Shut Door
Shame
Female Only

Sites(5)
Nazareth
Golgotha
Caesarea Phillipi
Marketplace
Herod's Dungeon

Artifacts (8)
Magic Charms
Unholy Writ
Holy Grail
The Bronze Laver
Hidden Treasures
Urim and Thummim
Lampstand of the Sanctuary
Household Idols

Lambs (3)
Grapes of Wrath
Son of God
Angel of the Lord

Good Fortresses (4)
Storehouse
Goshen (P)
Obadiah's Caves
Herod's Temple

Covenants (1)
The New Covenant

Heroes (0) --Just had to say it...;)

Good Enhancements (4)
Authority of Christ (P)
Trumpet Blast
Brass Serpent
Samuel's Edict

Reapers (5)
Falling Away
Christian Martyr
Destruction of Nehushtan
Mayhem
Burial

Evil Fortresses (2)
Kingdoms of the World
High Priest's Palace

Curses (2)
Go into Captivity
Unknown Nation

Evil Characters (16)
User of Curious Arts
Saul/Paul
High Priest Ananias
High Priest Annas
High Priest Caiaphas
Disbelieving Sadducees
Sadducees (1/3 guys) x2
Simon the Magician
Herod the Great
Herod Agrippa II
Herod Antipas
Herodias
Salome
Herod Phillip II
Archelaus

Evil Enhancements (18)
Just a Hireling
Babel
Pride of Simon
Jospeh in Prison
High Priest's Plot
Foolish Advice
Chief Priests' Offer
Wrath of Satan
Hunger
Devourer (Ki)
Stone of Thebez
Wonders Forgotten
Swift Horses
Imprisoned
Escape to Egypt
Beheaded
Mask of Fear

Comments? Questions? Wondering why I didn't use Herod's Treachery? Simple. I forgot. By the time I noticed it was missing, I had played all the games I would play. it does belong in there though. 

For those who are not familiar with the basic strategy of Heroless:

I use mass character destruction cards like Wrath, JiP (works really nice with Babel if my opponent happens to have an EC with Horses), Beheaded, bunches of capture, and lots of negates with evil banding. The idea being I want to do whatever I can to get rid of my opponent's heroes. My win strategy then depends on using Grail to convert Saul/Paul to Paul (with Lampstand active in Herod's Temple to avoid DoN). I put him in Goshen for the first turn that I convert him, to avoid things like Invoking Terror. Obdiah's Caves protects him from Capture, and Herod's Temple + one of my good enhancements will usually be enough to avoid Christian Martyr (though I also have two healing cards, Brass Serpent and The New Covenant). On the turn after I convert him, I activate Hidden Treasures, attack with Paul, and play AoCP to wipe out my opponent's defense. If they have a protect Fort, I use Trumpet Blast first (before AoCP), then if they block, I use Angel of the Lord or Sam's Edict to win the battle and use AoCP next turn. By this time, I have a nearly bulletproof Hero, and if they have any ECs in hand, I can usually use AotL or Edict, or if I'm desperate I can use my other use of Grail. Then I walk in for the rest of my rescues.

Usually, if my opponent hasn't gotten past my defense before it is setup, then it's game over. This essentially means that I either win 5-2, 5-3, or 5-4, or I lose 5-0 if someone gets the drop on me.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 10:00:15 PM by Professoralstad »
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Offline dermo4christ

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 05:56:27 PM »
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so how do you rescue souls w/o heroes???

Offline Nameless

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 06:02:59 PM »
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He converts Saul to a hero.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 06:16:02 PM »
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I'm surprised not to see alexander in there, was there a reason for his exclusion?
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Offline dermo4christ

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 09:31:18 PM »
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He converts Saul to a hero.

ah yes! I forgot about Saul.  Nice!

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 09:34:07 PM »
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I'm surprised not to see alexander in there, was there a reason for his exclusion?

I've always seen him as a risk. There are quite a few non-NT Evil cards that I depend on (Grail, Lampstand, Laver, Storehouse, etc.) If I underdeck them, I may later regret it.

I will update the first post with the basic strategy of how this deck wins.
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 11:51:08 PM »
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What if they play Invoking Terror the turn after you rescue? I assume you convert again with Holy Grail. But if they play Invoking Terror again then you are out of converts and stuck at a max of 3 LS (including Son of God).

How do you prevent from Invoking Terror except for flipping up Cov w/ Death?

Kirk
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 12:35:02 AM »
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What if they play Invoking Terror the turn after you rescue? I assume you convert again with Holy Grail. But if they play Invoking Terror again then you are out of converts and stuck at a max of 3 LS (including Son of God).

How do you prevent from Invoking Terror except for flipping up Cov w/ Death?

Kirk

The only way my opponent can use Invoking Terror repeatedly is if they were able to keep a multi-color magician in hand when the AoCP bomb went off. If they then are able to use it once, then they are exposed to get hit by Edict or AotL. I will have been looking at my opponent's hand all game so I can see it coming, and will try my best to improvise.

Obviously if my opponent figures out what is coming, there are ways that they can beat Heroless, by keeping multiple ECs in hand along with some way to permanently get rid of Paul. But even players who use decks with that kind of capability are rarely able to plan for that before it's too late. Usually, if an opponent keeps 2 ECs in hand, they don't have the necessary enhancements to get around all of Paul's protection stuff. That's one of my favorite things about Heroless; against skilled opponents with a fairly sizable defense, the end game is sort of a chess match. The problem is those kind of games would never end in time at a tournament.

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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 08:41:38 AM »
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That's one of my favorite things about Heroless; against skilled opponents with a fairly sizable defense, the end game is sort of a chess match. The problem is those kind of games would never end in time at a tournament.
I couldn't agree with this more than I already do.  I LOVE games like this online where I'm playing people and we come to the end of the game and it truly is almost like chess.  I (playing the super defense) have to figure out how to either completely lock them out, or at least stop them long enough for my minimal offense to break through.  Meanwhile, they (usually with a super offense) have to figure out how to sneak through my typical layers of traps set up to stop them.  It gets REALLY interesting.  My opponent's almost always express how much fun these types of game are whether they win or lose.  I just wish that time limits were longer so that more people could get to enjoy that type of situation.

Offline cookie monster

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 03:30:55 PM »
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you forgot NJ
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Offline Josh

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 05:07:13 PM »
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you forgot NJ

NJ does not work in decks like this.  You need all the hand space you can get to hold enhancements while not attacking. 
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 07:01:34 PM »
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+1

Additionally, at the end of the game, when this deck makes it's rescues, it will have very little trouble walking in 4 turns in a row to redeem a Lost Soul. Under the new rule that you cannot rescue your own Lost Souls with SoG, it probably isn't needed either.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 07:37:06 PM »
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I build a deck along a similar idea (just using watchful servant) and I found that SoG wasn't needed either, it just takes up hand space, and by that point in the game if you can rescue 4 LSs, u can rescue 5

Offline cookie monster

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 09:28:19 PM »
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I build a deck along a similar idea (just using watchful servant) and I found that SoG wasn't needed either, it just takes up hand space, and by that point in the game if you can rescue 4 LSs, u can rescue 5

You can tell I still think like a new-ish player, I just can't rap my head around a deck without SoG!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Offline Josh

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 10:13:50 PM »
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I build a deck along a similar idea (just using watchful servant) and I found that SoG wasn't needed either, it just takes up hand space, and by that point in the game if you can rescue 4 LSs, u can rescue 5

SoG can nab a pesky LS to stop its ability, like Punisher or Site Guard or maybe even Wanderer or FBTN (depending on what your small offense/large defense is).
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Heroless 2012
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2012, 10:18:05 PM »
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true
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