Author Topic: The Fall of Man - Cards and Info (Read 112665 times)

adevine · « **Reply #100 on:** April 12, 2018, 06:29:10 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 12, 2018, 06:25:20 PM

Nope! That card is super underrated. Lock your opponent out of an art for two turns after they burn YWR

Yes!!

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #101 on:** April 12, 2018, 06:29:51 PM »

Quote from: Kevinthedude on April 12, 2018, 06:27:27 PM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 12, 2018, 06:25:20 PM
Nope! That card is super underrated. Lock your opponent out of an art for two turns after they burn YWR

I guess that's neat but artifacts are basically the most competitive card type in game idk if I can see current Silver Cup ever being run when much better artifacts have been driven out of the meta already.

Do you think it's because it's one of the few cards with a true "cost" in that you can only have one? Or because we don't have sufficient counters to artifacts?

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #102 on:** April 12, 2018, 06:38:45 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 12, 2018, 06:29:51 PM

Quote from: Kevinthedude on April 12, 2018, 06:27:27 PM
Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 12, 2018, 06:25:20 PM
Nope! That card is super underrated. Lock your opponent out of an art for two turns after they burn YWR

I guess that's neat but artifacts are basically the most competitive card type in game idk if I can see current Silver Cup ever being run when much better artifacts have been driven out of the meta already.

Do you think it's because it's one of the few cards with a true "cost" in that you can only have one? Or because we don't have sufficient counters to artifacts?

Oh definitely the cost, no question. Artifact removal isn't very relevant because it only forces the opponent to use their second best artifact rather than truly depriving them of a whole card's worth of value. Repeatable artifact negation is the only true artifact counter and that's already covered by one of the best cards in game. If you could activate multiple artifacts for free then the already existing artifact removal in game would rising in value and be run because it would actually deprive your opponent of an entire card's worth of value.

Also another point against Silver Cup, if I wanted to deprive my opponent of their artifact slot using my own artifact slot, I'd rather use an artifact that's infinitely reusable and much more versatile than Cup in the form of Censor or Image.

adevine · « **Reply #103 on:** April 12, 2018, 07:06:27 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on April 12, 2018, 06:18:51 PM

Quote from: adevine on April 12, 2018, 06:13:33 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 12, 2018, 06:09:56 PM
You named the right Hero but not the thing he hid that this card represents.

He hid his silver cup in Benjamin's bag.
Nailed it!

Spoiler (hover to show)

I personally am excited for this. To be able to incorporate some old and new cards

TheJaylor · « **Reply #104 on:** April 12, 2018, 07:14:39 PM »

Maybe you should make it say, "a card of different alignment" so it can hit artifacts too. That way you can negate their active artifact and then not let them deactivate it. And it would be balanced because then they just have to deactivate it when they can to get rid of it.

The Guardian · « **Reply #105 on:** April 12, 2018, 07:24:55 PM »

I mean it's free Reserve access on a card I'm using anyway if I'm in those brigades...

Gabe · « **Reply #106 on:** April 12, 2018, 07:26:58 PM »

Mr. Dude, once again there are a couple omissions from your argument to make it sound good.

The first is that you seem to only view things from an ultra competitive perspective. While I understand that is where you reside and that many of the members here are at least somewhat competitive, the highly competitive player makes up the minority of Redemption players.

The second is that you’ve discounted the advantage of controlling the games tempo. It’s not difficult to build a deck that can afford to spend the artifact spot for a couple turns to ensure an opponent isn’t able to use theirs. Now that JSC can be retrieved from the reserve (not to mention recurred to be used again) its all the more playable. And it accomplished something 3W, Censor and Image do not - it ties up the opponents Artifact for 2 turns instead of 1.

My guess is that it Joseph’s Silver Cup will still be an underrated card that most players don’t take advantage of. But there will be a few clever people who put it to good use.

The Guardian · « **Reply #107 on:** April 12, 2018, 07:33:10 PM »

True story: JSC was effectively used in a T2 deck that won the T2 Only many years ago.

TXJonathan · « **Reply #108 on:** April 12, 2018, 07:47:36 PM »

Could I use Hiding Joseph's Cup to negate Goliath if I put it on him in territory since it's CBP?

Red Wing · « **Reply #109 on:** April 12, 2018, 08:16:10 PM »

Neat, free Uzzah fodder.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #110 on:** April 12, 2018, 09:07:35 PM »

Quote from: NWJonathan on April 12, 2018, 07:47:36 PM

Could I use Hiding Joseph's Cup to negate Goliath if I put it on him in territory since it's CBN?

You can place it on Goliath if you play it as good but since Goliath is CBN his ability would still work.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #111 on:** April 12, 2018, 10:14:10 PM »

Or we could just make JSC a bit better and use a more liberal interpretation of the card and rule that "artifacts must remain active" is not restricting only deactivation but also something like YWR from removing itself from being an active artifact by it's own ability.

I tried...

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #112 on:** April 12, 2018, 10:16:32 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on April 12, 2018, 07:26:58 PM

The first is that you seem to only view things from an ultra competitive perspective.

Quote from: The Guardian on April 12, 2018, 07:33:10 PM

True story: JSC was effectively used in a T2 deck that won the T2 Only many years ago.

Unless stated otherwise, yes my view point is always from a competitive T1 perspective. I am aware that my opinions are only representative of the minority

Quote from: Gabe on April 12, 2018, 07:26:58 PM

The second is that you’ve discounted the advantage of controlling the games tempo. It’s not difficult to build a deck that can afford to spend the artifact spot for a couple turns to ensure an opponent isn’t able to use theirs. Now that JSC can be retrieved from the reserve (not to mention recurred to be used again) its all the more playable. And it accomplished something 3W, Censor and Image do not - it ties up the opponents Artifact for 2 turns instead of 1.

My guess is that it Joseph’s Silver Cup will still be an underrated card that most players don’t take advantage of. But there will be a few clever people who put it to good use.

I'm still not sure I see the current printing of Joseph's Silver Cup finding its way into a tournament deck but I will admit I have under valued it at least somewhat. As Red Wing mentioned higher up if nothing else it pays Uzzah's cost without sacrificing an artifact from your deck that you intended to use.

Regardless of my opinions on the Cup itself, the FoM card referencing it I am glad to see. It's the niche cards like these that give us deck builders something to do!

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #113 on:** April 13, 2018, 10:18:05 AM »

Don't forget that you place hiding joes cup on a character, making it targetable with R&D, and many decks will be able to play this on either a hero or ec, giving you flexibility. that being said I still probably wouldn't play the card

kariusvega · « **Reply #114 on:** April 13, 2018, 10:25:19 AM »

Quote from: sepjazzwarrior on April 13, 2018, 10:18:05 AM

Don't forget that you place hiding joes cup on a character, making it targetable with R&D, and many decks will be able to play this on either a hero or ec, giving you flexibility. that being said I still probably wouldn't play the card

It's also a common. If I had my way every card in every set would be fighting for your card slots in every 50 card deck you play by theme appropriately. With commons, rares, ur etc it's not considered practical to make every card playable in any deck.

It's also pretty cool to see unexpected interactions from cards people immediately consider unplayable or under powered go on to be in deck types everyone thought would lose nationals, but won (see Arrest in Gethsemane 2015/Children of Light 2017). These kinds of creative, unexpected combinations are what make Redemption not only so creatively intriguing but also really fun and exciting

Kor · « **Reply #115 on:** April 15, 2018, 09:03:15 AM »

Interesting use of negative numbers to print new genesis blue cards without making Benjamin better.

Master Q · « **Reply #116 on:** April 15, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »

Regarding Jo Jo's cup: If the Reserve was, say, 15 cards instead of 10 (oh, if only), I could justify a place for it there if I was inclined to deck Hiding. As of now, Reserve space is so precious I would not be able to bring myself to put it in, knowing if I had the space (often not the case) I could get better value from something like Image or Censer- cards that are so good I would (and have) used both in the main deck.

That being said, Jo Jo's cup is still an underrated card in the right deck (I found it especially nice pre-RoJ Flood Survivors) and will always be playable. Just not necessarily competitive. The place/negate ability to CBP power-down any character is what makes Hiding so potentially great (R&D always loves targets) and what will be considered when it comes time to building (as-in, do I play R&D or not?).

Quote from: Kor on April 15, 2018, 09:03:15 AM

Interesting use of negative numbers to print new genesis blue cards without making Benjamin better.

Isn't it great!? I think so.

Gabe · « **Reply #117 on:** April 15, 2018, 05:26:49 PM »

Master Q gets major props for encouraging the set designers to expand the use of negative numbers in the game. If you like the new negative stats, be sure to thank him. If you don’t, well...

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #118 on:** April 15, 2018, 06:13:14 PM »

Just read the last two articles on LoR, very excited to play those cards, especially the strong multi brigade counters!

The Guardian · « **Reply #119 on:** April 16, 2018, 10:56:37 AM »

Cards 92 & 93 have been previewed (Jephthah's Daughter and Lamenting in the Mountains), but I can't find the posts with them...anyone remember?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #120 on:** April 16, 2018, 11:01:22 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on April 16, 2018, 10:56:37 AM

Cards 92 & 93 have been previewed (Jephthah's Daughter and Lamenting in the Mountains), but I can't find the posts with them...anyone remember?

Here

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #121 on:** April 16, 2018, 11:43:46 AM »

If I have counted correctly only 10 of each (FoM & LR) are left to be spoiled!

Gil Galad Elven King *Generic · « **Reply #122 on:** April 16, 2018, 12:24:23 PM »

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 16, 2018, 11:43:46 AM

If I have counted correctly only 10 of each (FoM & LR) are left to be spoiled!

Looks like less than that now...

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #123 on:** April 16, 2018, 12:27:20 PM »

Quote from: Gil Galad Elven King *Generic on April 16, 2018, 12:24:23 PM

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 16, 2018, 11:43:46 AM
If I have counted correctly only 10 of each (FoM & LR) are left to be spoiled!

Looks like less than that now...

Yep!

h20tor · « **Reply #124 on:** April 16, 2018, 01:34:11 PM »

Leviathan hasn't been spoiled yet has it?

News:

Author Topic: The Fall of Man - Cards and Info (Read 112665 times)

adevine

adevine

TheHobbit13

kariusvega