Author Topic: The Fall of Man - Cards and Info (Read 112625 times)

I had a tiny little happy attack when I discovered that~
I was like, "Haha! My diligent hovering over every blue link never goes unrewarded! Let's see... OH MY GOSH, THEY DID IT!! THEY FINALLY DID IT!! THEY REPRINTED FLAMING SWORD, AND IT DOES EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED IT TO DO~! Oh Cactus, you lovable little so-and-sos~"

This set is going to be so awesome.

Reth · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2018, 02:27:57 AM »

Thank you Watchman!

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2018, 02:28:55 PM »

I really like the blame shifting card because of bringing back "Redirect" ability after all those years.

I like "The Serpent's Curse" card because it is an ability that evil characters (animals in the case of the SA) get to ignore heroes after a very long time.

The Fall of man card is really nice because of the simple "Restrict players from playing dominant cards while player is rescuing or blocking" I think the game needed at least one card that does such an ability.

Isildur · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2018, 12:56:32 AM »

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on March 20, 2018, 02:28:55 PM

I really like the blame shifting card because of bringing back "Redirect" ability after all those years.

Redirect is a terrible ability. It's super confusing and is not at all consistent. There is a reason why the ability hasn't been used since G/H.

I was always a big hit at the sealed deck tables because whenever someone would play a redirect card my hand would shoot up because I never understood how it worked... and neither did my opponents... or the judges

*Edit. Sorry guys I could have worded that first statement a little softer! But I'll leave it as is since that was my opinion about the ability for many years.

The Guardian · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2018, 01:04:44 AM »

It's actually one of the easiest abilities to understand...if you interrupt and redirect a card, you can just physically pick up the card and play it back on the table on your side of the battle. If it says "discard a Hero" you discard a Hero. If it says "Discard all Evil Characters" you discard all Evil Characters.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2018, 01:34:37 AM »

It's easy to carry out once you understand how it functions but there is still a bit of interpretation that has to be had, because it would be easy to think that redirecting "discard a hero" would mean that you could discard an evil character, because you would be redirecting their enhancement directly back on your opponent's character. While it's clear that targets are being changed, it's not necessarily clear from reading the ability how they are being changed. Redirect can be described so succinctly that it probably doesn't even need to be a keyword in itself. "interrupt the battle and change the target of an enhancement" suffices.

Isildur · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2018, 02:20:00 AM »

Quote from: TheHobbit on March 21, 2018, 01:34:37 AM

It's easy to carry out once you understand how it functions but there is still a bit of interpretation that has to be had, because it would be easy to think that redirecting "discard a hero" would mean that you could discard an evil character, because you would be redirecting their enhancement directly back on your opponent's character. While it's clear that targets are being changed, it's not necessarily clear from reading the ability how they are being changed.

That's how I always used to get confused as a youngster. It was tricky for me to understand how the targets changed ect.

Quote

How to Play
● A redirect effect changes which player carries out an ability or which character benefits from the strength
and/or toughness on a card.
● Targets must be in battle, regardless of the type of redirect.
● Redirect effects that redirect an ability target the ability that is to be redirected. The target must be pending by
being interrupted.
● Redirecting an ability allows the player using the redirect effect to change which cards are targeted by the
redirected ability, but does not change the wording on the card. The new targets of the redirected ability may be
the same as or different than the ones that were originally targeted.
● Redirecting an ability does not change which player played the card it is on or the character that used it, but
does change which player carries out the effect.
● Redirect effects that redirect an ability are instant.
● Redirect effects that redirect strength and/or toughness target the card that the strength and/or toughness are on.
The strength and/or toughness of a card can be redirected without interrupting an ability on the card.
● Redirecting strength and/or toughness reduces the strength and/or toughness of the target by the amount
redirected and increases the strength and/or toughness of the redirecting card by the same amount.
● Redirect effects that redirect strength and/or toughness are ongoing.
● Ongoing redirect effects last until the end of the phase in which they are activated.

Here I copied and pasted the "how to play" from the REG. It's hard to garner that (to quote Justin) "if you interrupt and redirect a card, you can just physically pick up the card and play it back on the table on your side of the battle". As a kid when Women's came out I never understood what Redirect meant. There is a lot going on in that "how to play".

I'd still like to say that I do appreciate Justin's definition and will use that in the future to explain what it does!

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2018, 03:33:18 AM »

I think the problem with Redirect in the past was mostly because A) they were so rare that most players didn't use them very much B) some of the Redirect abilities were badly worded to be redirects and C) there was some confusion over which player's perspective the redirected ability was read from and the issues Redemption had with actually dealing with Rules in the past.

Redirect is obvious in many cases, both the cases that The Guardian used as examples are fairly easy and actually hard to get wrong with the understanding of Redemption Rules I had when the Tenth Anniversary Starter Deck came out with Denying Blame. However I was usually unsure of who's perspective the card was read from. If I redirected a card that cared who played it, Drawn Sword from FooF (2011) is a good example.

Drawn Sword says: "...you may discard an opponent's character in the field of battle..."

If I redirected Drawn Sword, according to my reading of the REG Entry (and The Guardian's simple explanation) Drawn Sword would be able to discard MY opponent's character in battle, because the first line in the REG entry says "A redirect effect changes which player carries out an ability" so the ability is now my ability and the "opponent" it is talking about is now my opponent. (Also my character benefits from the numbers on Drawn Sword)

Note: This is not how I would have designed Redirect, but it's not hard to understand, I would have just had it allow the redirecting player to choose the targets, but the card to still be read from the perspective of the player who played the card.

kariusvega · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2018, 07:18:10 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on March 21, 2018, 01:04:44 AM

It's actually one of the easiest abilities to understand...if you interrupt and redirect a card, you can just physically pick up the card and play it back on the table on your side of the battle. If it says "discard a Hero" you discard a Hero. If it says "Discard all Evil Characters" you discard all Evil Characters.

This is a great concise description of redirect.

Redirect isn't negate and sometimes will do things you don't want it to, which is when you have to argue about it lol. It's a higher risk/reward option than a negate.

Last redirect I played was against Guardian he played Overwhelming Presence which underdecks all evil characters in battle so I tried to play Denying Blame (incorrectly) to keep my Goliath from being underdecked. Well the ability still works so I pretty much just underdecked my own guy to result in the same outcome haha

Gabe turned me on to Denying Blame though because he had it in a throne/philistines deck and he used it correctly against me to get a great block.

Redirect is definitely an awesome ability when understood and used properly!

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Author Topic: The Fall of Man - Cards and Info (Read 112625 times)

kariusvega

TheHobbit13

kariusvega