PROPHECIES OF CHRIST (Spoiler thread)

[Master Q]

What about:

If blocking, you may discard an artifact, activate your artifact, or toss a curse from your artifact pile hand (or reserve if Jonah is in play)

EDIT: Probably makes more sense to toss a curse from hand or reserve to help maintain the integrity of rules, which tossing a curse from the artifact pile could create.

I really think there should be a toss element as well. What about:

"If blocking, you may discard an Artifact or activate an Artifact from Artifact pile (or Reserve if Jonah is in play). If alone, halve the strength of (and toss) all multi-brigade Enhancements played this battle."

That kind of plays into the desperation of the sailors and how useless tossing things overboard was. Maybe increase their numbers to 4/6 (6 representing each non-orange evil brigade) then. I wouldn't mind that at all.

Regarding the other Jonah cards, why are they part Teal?

[goalieking87]

What about:

If blocking, you may discard an artifact, activate your artifact, or toss a curse from your artifact pile hand (or reserve if Jonah is in play)

EDIT: Probably makes more sense to toss a curse from hand or reserve to help maintain the integrity of rules, which tossing a curse from the artifact pile could create.

I really think there should be a toss element as well. What about:

"If blocking, you may discard an Artifact or activate an Artifact from Artifact pile (or Reserve if Jonah is in play). If alone, halve the strength of (and toss) all multi-brigade Enhancements played this battle."

That kind of plays into the desperation of the sailors and how useless tossing things overboard was. Maybe increase their numbers to 4/6 (6 representing each non-orange evil brigade) then. I wouldn't mind that at all.

Regarding the other Jonah cards, why are they part Teal?

Toss definitely fits the character. I think the challenge is making toss effective on defense, which is the driver for my recommendation in addition to it fitting thematically.

IMO effective defensive tossing would require being able to toss an enhancement immediately (which my version would accomplish) rather than tossing the next (I.e. Evil King Saul) or generally enhancements (Foreign Spearmen).

The benefit would be more for surprise tosses to help combat low numbered heroes (even protected Gideon), which generally can’t be accomplished with toss abilities on higher numbered Heroes who cause tossing (The Mighty Warrior and Peaceful Peter).

I am not sure what your justification for halving the strength was, but doubling it would be more effective for defense (again assuming initiative or the ability to toss with the block).

Thoughts?

[Master Q]

I am not sure what your justification for halving the strength was, but doubling it would be more effective for defense (again assuming initiative or the ability to toss with the block).

Thoughts?

The idea would be to punish players for running too many multibrigade Enhancements (defender included). Just like how throwing things not named Jonah overboard didn't accomplish much, I don't want the toss to actually be very effective.

[kram1138]

What about tossing characters? I know you can't currently do that, but I don't see any reason why that couldn't be allowed.

"... If alone, toss a curse or character from hand or artifact pile".

[goalieking87]

I am not sure what your justification for halving the strength was, but doubling it would be more effective for defense (again assuming initiative or the ability to toss with the block).

Thoughts?

The idea would be to punish players for running too many multibrigade Enhancements (defender included). Just like how throwing things not named Jonah overboard didn't accomplish much, I don't want the toss to actually be very effective.

Makes sense to not have the toss be very effective, but then I would argue that if Jonah is in play, they could toss Jonah

I am mostly joking - not trying to get too carried away though.

[Master Q]

Also, Sign of Jonah is labeled as "Artist Unknown" when Herb Mandel is the artist (you can even see his name on the picture). Though he died in 2016, that's still likely not 'public domain' art.

EDIT: Maybe this one by Albert Pinkham Ryder instead?

Spoiler (hover to show)

[The Guardian]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/diver-accidentally-ends-inside-mouth-121835563.html

[The Guardian]

Might come in handy if you find yourself in a situation like Jonah...or the guy in the story above. 

Spoiler (hover to show)

[goalieking87]

So I really like the ability on that spoiler card. Wondering a little bit about wording though because it seems like the first part is optional, but if Hero is opposed, it is not optional.  Even besides that, the wording seems a little off for some reason, but not exactly sure why.

[The Guardian]

The "You may" would apply to both abilities, however I see what you're saying...perhaps we'll look at trying to make that flow a bit better.

[RedemptionAggie]

For most abilities like that, the condition comes after the ability, so it would be

"(or begin a side battle between 2 humans if Hero is opposed)"

I don't know why we flipped the order here.

And the "you may" applies to the self discard, which is the cost of the other abilities. I do think that because upgrades like that always create a choice (the original ability or the upgrade) that you can carry out either one, but that means something like the starter deck Miraculous Catch could be played on Peter to draw 1 instead of draw 3/discard 1.

[Master Q]

Something I just thought of regarding this guy:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Should it be made to discard only good human prophets? Or perhaps green prophets? I'm thinking it shouldn't discard angels and either of these work to remedy that.

Also, I totally misread Vain Visions as look at the top X, rather than the top 6. Makes a difference.

[redemption collector 777]

Esther the Courageous part of special ability:

If alone protect O.T human Heroes and Lost Souls from evil cards



Just thought of a suggestion for Esther. 


Since "Joy" can be put on her , she would become  CBN protect herself from all evil cards.  Seems like it would almost become an Auto Gideon CBN protect.


Was thinking maybe the special ability could be " If alone , protect O.T human heroes and Lost Souls in territories from evil cards.


Also considering the original bible story of Esther , she pretty well put herself at risk for the sake of saving her own people.

Kjv Esther 4:16  "and so will I go in unto the king , which is not according to the law: and if I perish , I perish.

[Kevinthedude]

Esther the Courageous part of special ability:

If alone protect O.T human Heroes and Lost Souls from evil cards



Just thought of a suggestion for Esther. 


Since "Joy" can be put on her , she would become  CBN protect herself from all evil cards.  Seems like it would almost become an Auto Gideon CBN protect.


Was thinking maybe the special ability could be " If alone , protect O.T human heroes and Lost Souls in territories from evil cards.


Also considering the original bible story of Esther , she pretty well put herself at risk for the sake of saving her own people.

Kjv Esther 4:16  "and so will I go in unto the king , which is not according to the law: and if I perish , I perish.

Joy + Ester is just about as much effort as AUTO Gideon and Joy is much more easily countered. Also 3/3s get initiative against her which means shes much easier to chump than CoW Gideon so it's not even quite as effective. Plus you don't get the draw and exchange potential that AUtO provides. I don't see Ester + Joy as problematic. If you're really worried just run R&D for the hard counter

[The Guardian]

It's time for everybody's favorite thing...LATE NIGHT SPOILERS!!! 

Spoiler (hover to show)

Mmm, can't wait to add this guy to my "Red Spread Redemption" deck. 

[Kevinthedude]

It's time for everybody's favorite thing...LATE NIGHT SPOILERS!!! 

Spoiler (hover to show)

Mmm, can't wait to add this guy to my "Red Spread Redemption" deck. 

I love that post PoC not only can I make a competitive mono-Teal deck but I can potentially make Teal/Red and Teal/Green variants as well.

[TheJaylor]

It's time for everybody's favorite thing...LATE NIGHT SPOILERS!!! 

Spoiler (hover to show)

Mmm, can't wait to add this guy to my "Red Spread Redemption" deck. 

Should Zadok say "play an artifact" instead of "activate" or are we sticking with "activate" in cases where an artifact is the only target?

[Watchman]

Concerning the LoR post about Elijah and Tested by Fire, how come he is CBP? I figure CBI would be more appropriate. And why is gold brigade represented on the enhancement, so mono-gold Moses could potentially use it?

[Gabe]

Concerning the LoR post about Elijah and Tested by Fire, how come he is CBP? I figure CBI would be more appropriate. And why is gold brigade represented on the enhancement, so mono-gold Moses could potentially use it?

We’ve found that protection and CBN/I isn’t typically a healthy thing for the game (see AutO).

The enhancement is part gold because it represents God’s judgement.

It’s green cuz Elijah. 

[thejambi]

It's time for everybody's favorite thing...LATE NIGHT SPOILERS!!! 

Spoiler (hover to show)

Mmm, can't wait to add this guy to my "Red Spread Redemption" deck. 

Should Zadok say "play an artifact" instead of "activate" or are we sticking with "activate" in cases where an artifact is the only target?

Just "playing" an artifact wouldn't imply that it gets to be activated though, right?

[Watchman]

We’ve found that protection and CBN/I isn’t typically a healthy thing for the game (see AutO).

I agree that CBN protection is too much (like AUTO), but I would think that in this case the balance is the fact that it can be prevented.  But CBI is still strong for heroes since there aren't too many cards that can prevent them prior to entering battle. 

[Gabe]

We’ve found that protection and CBN/I isn’t typically a healthy thing for the game (see AutO).

I agree that CBN protection is too much (like AUTO), but I would think that in this case the balance is the fact that it can be prevented.  But CBI is still strong for heroes since there aren't too many cards that can prevent them prior to entering battle.

CBI isn’t “OK” on Thaddeus. It’s something we generally prefer not to do going forward. When you use him I think you’ll find Elijah is really good as is so he doesn’t need CBI. His CTB is inherently CBI though.

[Gabe]

Should Zadok say "play an artifact" instead of "activate" or are we sticking with "activate" in cases where an artifact is the only target?

Just "playing" an artifact wouldn't imply that it gets to be activated though, right?

You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from hand, deck, Reserve, Artifact pile or discard pile due to your ability or game action, except when you discard a card from hand.

According to the REG definition of "play" that works and it's something we've done before (see Tubal-cain). Marcus is more of the authority on these things but I think we use "activate" when we can and play when it applies beyond artifacts (like on Tubal-cain).

[Watchman]

We’ve found that protection and CBN/I isn’t typically a healthy thing for the game (see AutO).

I agree that CBN protection is too much (like AUTO), but I would think that in this case the balance is the fact that it can be prevented.  But CBI is still strong for heroes since there aren't too many cards that can prevent them prior to entering battle.

CBI isn’t “OK” on Thaddeus. It’s something we generally prefer not to do going forward. When you use him I think you’ll find Elijah is really good as is so he doesn’t need CBI. His CTB is inherently CBI though.

But Thaddeus’s protect is conditional based upon 1) the # of your disciples in play, and 2) the toughness of the EC based upon the # of your disciples in play. And his ability can still be prevented.

Anyways, I was just wondering. If he’s playtested fine then I’m sure he’ll be fine as is.

[thejambi]

We’ve found that protection and CBN/I isn’t typically a healthy thing for the game (see AutO).

Hi Gabe! Could you expand on this a bit? Just hoping to understand a little more about why this is, and how to understand it when the next two cards after Elijah in the post have Cannot Be Interrupted and Cannot Be Negated in them. I think I remember something about trying to put CBI on abilities that are harder/messier to undo, but that may fall into a different part of the design decisions than what you're saying here.