PROPHECIES OF CHRIST (Spoiler thread)

[Watchman]

does anyone else think the LR Daniel soul be a cloud hero because al the other reprints are getting a cloud identifier and the Cloud Daniel is cloud too

There's already a Cloud Daniel from CoW.  The older versions (including the LR Daniel) are fine as-is.  The LRs are only reprints and not updates (just updated, clarifying wording, not an errata).

[thecoolguy]

ok thanks I was just wondering sorry to intrude

[The Guardian]

does anyone else think the LR Daniel soul be a cloud hero because al the other reprints are getting a cloud identifier and the Cloud Daniel is cloud too

To be honest, we did discuss that option, but decided in the end that it was best to keep LR as originally intended (fixed wording, new art if needed & new card face) and not go down the road of making upgrades even if they are relatively minor (so basically what Watchman said).

[Watchman]

ok thanks I was just wondering sorry to intrude

It’s cool. And you didn’t intrude. It’s a legit question.

[thecoolguy]

ok I think that Daniel offense could be strong but it just isn't strong enough in my opinion. I fell it is missing like one card to make the deck stronger

[Red Dragon Thorn]

The Daniel offense is somewhat purposefully missing a legitimate top flight battle winner ala Edict, Bravey or even something like Ehuds dagger or Forest Fire. It can be so blazingly fast, and has a ton of protection and banding. If it had a legit battle winner it would be an unquestioned top tier meta-warping option

[thecoolguy]

yeah that makes sense sorry

[Mr.Hiatus]

So the new Nebby, as a hero, can use Throne of David and toss the first enh played by opponent. So you get to get initiative, draw, play, play a battle winner to give them special initiative and their negate would be tossed. I’m guessing special initiative would re-trigger (?) allowing them to re-negate? My real question is, does the enhancement that gets tossed have to be an interrupt or negate to attempt to stop the battle winner for SI or would it not matter? Could the opponent just toss whatever and then play a negate?

[Kevinthedude]

So the new Nebby, as a hero, can use Throne of David and toss the first enh played by opponent. So you get to get initiative, draw, play, play a battle winner to give them special initiative and their negate would be tossed. I’m guessing special initiative would re-trigger (?) allowing them to re-negate? My real question is, does the enhancement that gets tossed have to be an interrupt or negate to attempt to stop the battle winner for SI or would it not matter? Could the opponent just toss whatever and then play a negate?

I believe they just wouldn't be able to play at all. Since their interrupt or negate would be tossed, it can't actually interrupt the battle winner and thus cannot be played during SI. Same reason you can't play an interrupt or negate that's being prevented.

[ChristianSoldier]

Finally I get to see the new Daniel Cards... I'm a bit disappointed that the only Evil Battle winner is a 1 per deck, but since my entire defense can use it, it'll be a nice addition. But now for my take.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Nice card... searching out Dominants and being able to discard characters with Nebby is pretty good.

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm a bit disappointed by Azariah, not that he isn't good, just that I'm not convinced he's as good as the older one. It's nice to protect Lost Souls from evil cards, and the underdeck is nice, but losing out on mostly CBN protection from conversion and removal from the game and a more general banding ability, I'm not sure. I'm really excited about Mishael, he looks really fun. Daniel Card Draw? What is this madness?

Some questions about Mishael, does his ability mean that he prevents the next non-Daniel enhancement, or the next enhancement if it is not a Daniel enhancement? Also does it get used up if my opponent tosses the next enhancement (like if I have hero Nebby + Misheal in battle)

But my Daniel deck is going to really enjoy some of these cards, although finding room for some of these cards is going to be fun...

[Mr.Hiatus]

I agree with you KevintheDude which is where my concern lies. Do we really want to give Throne a hero that gets to draw, play, and it’s even better than CBN? Ironically John said he could see people trying to make Nebby work in Throne. With that ability why wouldn’t everyone!? I get to rescue, draw and play and if you do anything about it the enh is just wasted. I’ll take broken combo for 500.

[Sean]

would you be able to play an interrupt the battle card after the toss of a negate that targeted the theoretical battle winner?

[goalieking87]

Some questions about Mishael, does his ability mean that he prevents the next non-Daniel enhancement, or the next enhancement if it is not a Daniel enhancement? Also does it get used up if my opponent tosses the next enhancement (like if I have hero Nebby + Misheal in battle)

Mishael would prevent the next enhancement as long as it is not Daniel. If it is Daniel, this does not mean that the prevent would carry through to the next enhancement played - the opportunity would have passed.

Also, if the next enhancement is tossed, then the same applies. The prevent would not carry through to the next enhancement played.

[Kevinthedude]

I agree with you KevintheDude which is where my concern lies. Do we really want to give Throne a hero that gets to draw, play, and it’s even better than CBN? Ironically John said he could see people trying to make Nebby work in Throne. With that ability why wouldn’t everyone!? I get to rescue, draw and play and if you do anything about it the enh is just wasted. I’ll take broken combo for 500.

I don't think its worth it. There's easier ways to set up equally effective attacks. Real broken combo decks aren't broken because of their power, they're broken because of their power combined with their ease and consistency to set up. This one requires you to get Nebby, get a Daniel Hero, block with Nebby without getting removed, get Throne, get a purple battle winner, and then they could still get you with any number of Martyr, chump, play first, etc.

[Master Q]

Do we really want to give Throne a hero that gets to draw, play, and it’s even better than CBN? Ironically John said he could see people trying to make Nebby work in Throne. With that ability why wouldn’t everyone!? I get to rescue, draw and play and if you do anything about it the enh is just wasted. I’ll take broken combo for 500.

What Daniel Hero is your Throne deck running, exactly, to make this work consistently?

If you're using Holy Grail, as is tradition with most convert strategies, then you're converting a character that's actually pretty vulnerable in the grand scheme of things. I can't think of anything in the best throne decks that will band to this guy to start a rescue, unlike Sam + Saul + on and on. This means CM, FA (CoW), Writ, Magic Charms, etc will stop him on their own most of the time, and you've wasted a Holy Grail convert.

Granted, Faith of David and banding cards exist to mitigate this. That's a fair point, but the set up isn't as simple as putting down Ahimilek straight from hand (or deck via David), which I'd think will still be a better option for most Throne decks.

Also, Sheol, Gates, Unknown Nation, Sixth Bowl are all excellent evil add to battle abilities. Also, he's still got to play something to win most of the time.


Point being, that's a bit of work for something that's probably not worth it in most cases. Personally, I'm a bit more leary of just attacking with a protected Esther and dropping AoCP if they block with anything 3/*, */4 or higher.

*Instapost with KtD

[Gabe]

The elder team is aware off Nebby + Throne and came to the same conclusion as KtD and MQ. We appreciate all feedback and will give this another look before sending it to print. It’s entirely possible the problem is TToD and not Nebby. 

[Bobbert]

Honestly I'd rather Naaman's Servant Girl if I was looking to convert him, but a deck that plays for that would likely still run a Grail.
Dom and Art blocks will always be a risk, but I think it's still powerful. A converted Nebby with Throne may as well just have "your first enhancement is CBN". Sure, perhaps it's a bit more involved than Ahimalek, but any purple enhancement will do instead of just banders.

[RedemptionAggie]

Also, he's only 1 in T2, and there's plenty more ways to disrupt it there in any case.

He's just Crimson for deckbuilding, since he begins as evil, so you could have 4 in T2.

[Master Q]

Also, he's only 1 in T2, and there's plenty more ways to disrupt it there in any case.

He's just Crimson for deckbuilding, since he begins as evil, so you could have 4 in T2.

Good point that didn't even cross my mind. Same as Saul/Paul, not King Saul. #NotaRealT2Player

[Mr.Hiatus]

This one requires you to get Nebby, get a Daniel Hero, block with Nebby without getting removed, get Throne, get a purple battle winner, and then they could still get you with any number of Martyr, chump, play first, etc.

So you're saying in a Throne deck that is the fastest deck over the last few years, or consistently ever, that getting Nebby out, AuTo/Sam/David get the rest, turn 1 mind you, The Deceiver/TaS for Nebby if you want, then you just have to get through one block with him. You'll have a purple battle winner whenever you want, that's kind of the point of the deck, and there you go. They can't chump block you get auto inish so if they chump you can play a Counsel of Abigail that you conveniently can retrieve with ASP, so they can play first which there isn't much of. So they can CM/CoW, but until they get that, or if the poor soul hasn't already used it, you have a Throne hero who gets initiative that plays a CBAnything about it enhancement over and over. I think there has been enough people saying this isn't going to be an issue and it's a known "combo" already, so I'm fine with it, this just seems ready to be broken and completely eliminates NPE once Nebby is converted. He can also be easily converted other ways.

[Isildur]

Playtesters did you guys dig up Firey Furnace from the old card ideas pile?

I know at one point back in texp and Disciples we were testing something similar to Firey Furnace that was an idea of mine. I can't remember if my idea was another version of Firey Furnace or another fort... but basically, it was a fort that allowed you to easily discard captured characters.

[The Guardian]

Playtesters did you guys dig up Firey Furnace from the old card ideas pile?

I know at one point back in texp and Disciples we were testing something similar to Firey Furnace that was an idea of mine. I can't remember if my idea was another version of Firey Furnace or another fort... but basically, it was a fort that allowed you to easily discard captured characters.

It's possible, I know I've seen various versions of Fiery Furnace at different times.

[goalieking87]

Should the new Ezekiel read, “Negate up to x evil cards and/or lost souls”?

The way it reads right now, and based on the rulings for cards that just say “and” it seems like this could either mean negate up to x evil cards, and up to x lost souls. Or it could mean negate up to x evil cards, and [all] lost souls.

[Watchman]

I have an interesting suggestion regarding the New Covenant (Jeremiah version) card.

Since there will be two cards titled New Covenant in PoC, how about labeling one of them with the Hebrew translation for New Covenant, Berit Hadashah?  If it's purposed for both New Covenants not be included in the same deck, then obviously this wouldn't work.  But if it's fine with both versions to be in a deck then perhaps the Jeremiah version could be labeled with the Hebrew wording.  This would help alleviate confusion about which New Covenant a player is referring to (without having to specify Ezekiel of Jeremiah); this would potentially help us retailers as well.

Just a suggestion. 

[Kor]

Seems like the new Jeremiah is a bit much.  Requires at least 2x enhancements to block each turn, gives complete information on opponent's hand AND is hard to get rid of.

(New) New Covenant and Potter and the Clay seem like interesting cards for building wacky combos around.

Valley of Dry Bones seems very strong.  Dominant battle extender...I would feel better if this was tied to a theme somehow.  And old Ezekiel reccuring this is just plain scary.