Other CCG Help

[Isildur]

None of those save TGT were tier 1.

lol

Also you forgot to look at the other decks in the top 20 there. (I know you cant see them but still). I know that at least 75% of the decks I played were TGT or Teal/Orange/Phili Decks at nats last year.

[Alex_Olijar]

Look at 2009 nats' top 3 decks. Only one TGT and it was the strongest deck in the meta. A tier 2 deck(Ztemp) got third and teal/green got 2nd. None of those save TGT were tier 1.

You realize that the Nats winning deck was NOT TGT don't you?

[Red]

It had TGT. It was a central part of the strategy thus IMO it can be calssified as TGT.

[Alex_Olijar]

It had TGT. It was a central part of the strategy thus IMO it can be calssified as TGT.

That's not true. The Garden Tomb was not in the deck. It was not even a central part of the strategy. The only TGT influence was the inclusion of a Green Joanna.

[Isildur]

wasnt the winner for 09 Gabes Z Temple Deck?

[Alex_Olijar]

Oh, I'm talking about Jon. I can't read I guess.

[SomeKittens]

What did Jon do?

[Smokey]

What did Jon do?

Prophet Preists.

[Master KChief]

But wayyyy broken compared to Redemption. Redemption doesn't have a one best deck like YGO has/had.

...what? yugioh has a multitude of deck archtypes that have been in and out of top tier. definately far more variation than redemption has ever had. this is primarily why the banned/restricted list in ygo is so long and constantly updated: once a deck archtype proves itself too broken for the meta, swift changes are made to weaken that archtype by limiting/banning some staple cards from that archtype.

[Red]

But wayyyy broken compared to Redemption. Redemption doesn't have a one best deck like YGO has/had.

...what? yugioh has a multitude of deck archtypes that have been in and out of top tier. definately far more variation than redemption has ever had. this is primarily why the banned/restricted list in ygo is so long and constantly updated: once a deck archtype proves itself too broken for the meta, swift changes are made to weaken that archtype by limiting/banning some staple cards from that archtype.

Redemption's meta is far healthier than most games. And the 2008/2009 YGO meta had 1 good deck:Tele:DAD You can PM to figure out what that means.

[Master KChief]

Redemption's meta is far healthier than most games.

i beg to differ, the very fact unbalanced cards go unchecked for an entire year (even sometimes longer *cough cough tgt) does not foster a healthy meta. but this is neither here nor there, as im talking about the numerous ygo decks that have rotated in and out of top tier status as compared to redemption...not so much the impact these decks have on the meta.

And the 2008/2009 YGO meta had 1 good deck:Tele:DAD You can PM to figure out what that means.

first of all, this was 2-3 years ago and much has obviously changed with roughly 4 sets a year since then. second of all, just because the 2008/2009 shonen jump circuit was oversaturated with teledad decks doesnt mean it was the 'only' top tier deck. third of all, teledad is completely nerfed now (and since march 2009, for that matter...a solid reason why ygo has a healthy meta) with dad and e-teleport being moved to limited.

[Red]

Does Redemption have OTKs? I don't think so. but i'll concede that many ygo decks good now. But Redemption since FBTN was nerfed at least 4 decks could win tournaments. That's a fairly healthly meta.

[TheHobbit13]

Don't use Redemption and Balanced meta in the same sentence please.  There are to many staples that almost have to be in every deck.

[Alex_Olijar]

Does Redemption have OTKs? I don't think so. but i'll concede that many ygo decks good now. But Redemption since FBTN was nerfed at least 4 decks could win tournaments. That's a fairly healthly meta.

4? Name them.

[Red]

Don't use Redemption and Balanced meta in the same sentence please.   There are to many staples that almost have to be in every deck.

YGO is bad at that as well. Staples doesn't mean bad meta.

Does Redemption have OTKs? I don't think so. but i'll concede that many ygo decks good now. But Redemption since FBTN was nerfed at least 4 decks could win tournaments. That's a fairly healthly meta.

4? Name them.

White NT, Disciples, Abom, Green. maybe even Green/Teal.

[Alex_Olijar]

Don't use Redemption and Balanced meta in the same sentence please.  There are to many staples that almost have to be in every deck.

YGO is bad at that as well. Staples doesn't mean bad meta.

Staples prevent a diverse meta. A diverse meta tends to be a more balanced meta. Therefore staples are bad.

[Ironica]

Don't use Redemption and Balanced meta in the same sentence please.  There are to many staples that almost have to be in every deck.

YGO is bad at that as well. Staples doesn't mean bad meta.

Staples prevent a diverse meta. A diverse meta tends to be a more balanced meta. Therefore staples are bad.

If staples are bad, then what are some duct tape cards that we can use to hold our decks together

[Red]

Don't use Redemption and Balanced meta in the same sentence please.  There are to many staples that almost have to be in every deck.

YGO is bad at that as well. Staples doesn't mean bad meta.

Staples prevent a diverse meta. A diverse meta tends to be a more balanced meta. Therefore staples are bad.

No they don't. A diverse meta is at least 4 decks that are viable. Redemption has at least four. If a meta is too diverse it creates luck as well.

[SomeKittens]

How does a diverse meta create luck?  You could face a deck that's not expected, but that's not luck.

[Minister Polarius]

I think what he means is that over-doing it with diversity can lead to a rock-paper-scissors situation, making your placing at tournaments depend a lot on which viable deck you used compared to which one the others used.

[Red]

I think what he means is that over-doing it with diversity can lead to a rock-paper-scissors situation, making your placing at tournaments depend a lot on which viable deck you used compared to which one the others used.

Exactly. You see that problem in T2 and I do not like it.

[SomeKittens]

I don't see that as a problem, but an extra layer of strategy.

[Prof Underwood]

I think what he means is that over-doing it with diversity can lead to a rock-paper-scissors situation, making your placing at tournaments depend a lot on which viable deck you used compared to which one the others used.

Exactly. You see that problem in T2 and I do not like it.

I'm not sure that there is really that much variety in T2.  At the biggest tourney of the year it seemed like most of the decks were very similar.  However, I agree that winning in T2 is depends much more on matchups of decks than T1 does.

[uthminister [BR]]

I think comparing YuGiOh and Redemption is a little uneven since YuGiOh uses side decks. In other words, if I play the first game and see that you have a certain type of deck I just switch in some cards from my side deck that work against that strategy and do much better the second game. Also, right now in YuGiOh, Six Samurai are the overwhelming favorite and win every tournament I have been to (work at a card store part time). The only other viable deck currently is Plants and maybe Blackwings. Ironically MTG is the least likely to have a deck that overwhelms all others. Perhaps that is because they release a base set and three sets in the current play block about every 10 months. When you release that huge volume of cards then the game will be more fluid. It is almost like they keep people from settling on one deck type because there are so many cards constantly coming at them.

[Alex_Olijar]

Yeah, T2 decks this year are going to be largely similar (at least the good ones). You will be seeing Disciples, White Ladies, and Job on offense (with some similar stuff like Bulletproof Samson thrown in). On defense, you will see largely stuff like Pharisees or the typical Horses decks. Based on the T2, I doubt there will be much diversity, so that's not a problem.